State Champion vs Class Champions

[slice60]

Maybe we can start a grass-roots movement in all sports-- the school that wins the highest class tournament is the STATE CHAMPION...the school that wins all of the smaller class tournaments are CLASS CHAMPIONS.

[Donnie Baker]

35 minutes ago, slice60 said:

Maybe we can start a grass-roots movement in all sports-- the school that wins the highest class tournament is the STATE CHAMPION...the school that wins all of the smaller class tournaments are CLASS CHAMPIONS.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day and I’ll say it right to your face 

[slice60]

43 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day and I’ll say it right to your face 

Maybe it's dumb (to you) but it's also accurate.

[slice60]

Lafayette Central Catholic (27)

Baseball (9) 2003-04 (1A), 2006-07 (1A), 2008-09 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2021-22 (1A), 2022-23 (1A) Boys Basketball (3) 1997-98 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2002-03 (1A)

Girls Basketball (3) 2005-06 (1A), 2014-15 (1A), 2015-16 (2A)

Football (8) 1976-77 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2015-16 (1A), 2019-20 (1A)

Girls Soccer (1) 2020-21 (1A)

Volleyball (3) 2010-11 (1A), 2017-18 (1A), 2021-22 (1A)

26 titles in Class 1A, 1 title in Class 2A. Back in the one-class era, LCC won zero State Championships. I rest my case.

[SBFootball1]

Yes, finally someone is fighting the good fight.

Don't forget "national champions" at sub BCS level colleges as well. D2, D3, NAIA...pssh. "national champs"

[BTF]

1 hour ago, slice60 said:

Maybe it's dumb (to you) but it's also accurate.

True, but you'd have to put an asterisk next to the 6A champion stating.........*We're only the best because of the unfair amount of resources we have compared to our smaller competitors. 

[JQWL]

8 hours ago, slice60 said:

Maybe we can start a grass-roots movement in all sports-- the school that wins the highest class tournament is the STATE CHAMPION...the school that wins all of the smaller class tournaments are CLASS CHAMPIONS.

I'm sure most years you can make this statement and be correct but here are exceptions. The 2008 Washington team with Tyler Zeller and Seth Coy were 3A but would have won in any class that year. I have no doubt there are others.

[foxbat]

8 hours ago, slice60 said:

Maybe we can start a grass-roots movement in all sports-- the school that wins the highest class tournament is the STATE CHAMPION...the school that wins all of the smaller class tournaments are CLASS CHAMPIONS.

 

6 hours ago, slice60 said:

Lafayette Central Catholic (27)

Baseball (9) 2003-04 (1A), 2006-07 (1A), 2008-09 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2021-22 (1A), 2022-23 (1A) Boys Basketball (3) 1997-98 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2002-03 (1A)

Girls Basketball (3) 2005-06 (1A), 2014-15 (1A), 2015-16 (2A)

Football (8) 1976-77 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2015-16 (1A), 2019-20 (1A)

Girls Soccer (1) 2020-21 (1A)

Volleyball (3) 2010-11 (1A), 2017-18 (1A), 2021-22 (1A)

26 titles in Class 1A, 1 title in Class 2A. Back in the one-class era, LCC won zero State Championships. I rest my case.

 

Not sure I understand the impetus for the thread nor even the LCC example.  I'm pretty sure about the most I've ever heard anyone say about a program is that they might have won the class above them that year as opposed to pretending that their title in their class makes them more than just that, the state champion in their class.  I'm not sure that 6A feels in the least "diminished" because a 3A school is also called a state champion along with the winner of 6A.  I'm also not really sure that the response to 6A school winning a state championship if they played a 1A team would be much more than, "duh."

Of course, there are other issues with the proposal despite the straw man example of a 6A program beating a successful 1A school.  In 2019, there's a good argument that 5A New Pal likely would have clipped 6A Carmel even though Carmel won 6A.  Your proposed idea would have done exactly what, I'm assuming in spirit you are proposing to not have happen: let a "poser" call themselves state champion.

[wabashalwaysfights]

So a "grassroots movement" over... semantics?

I mean, you do you, but I don't really see what this accomplishes.

[Trojanmp52]

I have felt this is true for years 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I have felt this is true for years 

It's absolutely true. The problem is that you can't compare Center Grove to Adams Central. The chances of a program from 1A-3A being recognized as the best is somewhere around 500,000 to 1. They just don't have the resources in an unfair playing field, hence having classes. If a school wants recognition as being the best team in the state, the only way to do that is to voluntarily bump up to 6A. In the meantime, any claims coming from 4A and 5A is just pretend. 

[coachkj]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:30 PM, Donnie Baker said:

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day and I’ll say it right to your face 

I agree with Donnie Baker.

Why would you care?  You know who doesn't care? The big school champions.

Why would this truly matter?  Run this by the 400 + principals and see what they think.

[Muda69]

On 3/16/2024 at 1:29 PM, slice60 said:

26 titles in Class 1A, 1 title in Class 2A. Back in the one-class era, LCC won zero State Championships. I rest my case.

That's a huge trophy case.  Probably took a nice fund raising campaign to build and future proof it.

 

[Daniel_Bragg]

Is this really what some people in big schools worry about?  Does it eat away at your person every time a 1A champion is crowned?  I mean, find something worthwhile to worry about in life.  Sheesh.

Oh, and they already do this.

Class 1A State Champion

Class 2A State Champion, etc.

[Donnie Baker]

5 hours ago, Muda69 said:

That's a huge trophy case.  Probably took a nice fund raising campaign to build and future proof it.

 

The shop class built it 

[HHPatriots]

3 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

The shop class built it 

In every school below 4A this is likely fact.  Carmel has theirs made by skilled craftsmen from Italy. 

[Rodney]

why?

 

there are some years where you can speculate some about a few of the larger class champions (mainly 4/5 being able to compete in a one off with the champion of 6a)

 

unless ur putting all classes together for a gigantic tournament to find out who the real champion is i don't see the point in making one team of high schoolers state champions and everyone else class champions based on where they grew up

Edited March 19, 2024 by Rodney

[BTF]

4 hours ago, Rodney said:

why?

 

there are some years where you can speculate some about a few of the larger class champions (mainly 4/5 being able to compete in a one off with the champion of 6a)

 

unless ur putting all classes together for a gigantic tournament to find out who the real champion is i don't see the point in making one team of high schoolers state champions and everyone else class champions based on where they grew up

I would also add that it would be a disservice to the 6A champion to label them as such. They'd get the reputation as the kid wrestling heavyweight beating down the kid wrestling at 135, then thumping his chest claiming he's the best. In it's current format, in most cases, a program can hold it's head high knowing they are the best among other schools with resources similar to their own. I could sit here all day and say "what if" Adams Central had 3000 kids. "What if" Merrillville had 3500 kids. In the meantime, let's just not diminish what the other schools accomplished in their weight class. 

[Cloudy14]

26 minutes ago, BTF said:

I could sit here all day and say "what if" Adams Central had 3000 kids. "What if" Merrillville had 3500 kids. In the meantime, let's just not diminish what the other schools accomplished in their weight class. 

Great perspective here.  Each class is "weighed" based on their enrollment.  Instead of playing the "what if" game that @BTF mentions, lets celebrate accomplishments.  To get to a state championship in each class is a feat, so diminishing the accomplishments of a 1A school over a 6A school doesn't accomplish much.

[CoachGallogly]

What problem are you trying to solve here?  
 

Is Lutheran walking around claiming they’d take down Ben Davis? 
 

Id assume all reasonable people can make a distinction between being the best in the state among peers. 
 

If your goal is semantics you need to add ‘high school’ to your state champion tag, otherwise Notre Dame might end up having a beef with Ben Davis. 

[coachkj]

45 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

What problem are you trying to solve here?  

Is Lutheran walking around claiming they’d take down Ben Davis? 

There isn't one.  Just like Washington DC.

Another question that fits, Is Ben Davis claiming the other 5 champions are not really champions?

Edited March 19, 2024 by coachkj

[CoachGallogly]

15 minutes ago, coachkj said:

There isn't one.  Just like Washington DC.

Another question that fits, Is Ben Davis claiming the other 5 champions are not really champions?

I’ve found the people that complain about such things don’t come from the good programs fan bases, they come from big school fans who are annoyed they routinely get knocked out of the tourney early while smaller schools get to make deeper runs. What they really often want is the chance to beat up some schools 1/4 of their size and make the third round of an all in tourney and thump their chests about coming in 124th in the state, rather than 17th in their class. 

Edited March 19, 2024 by CoachGallogly

[Muda69]

The single class Indiana High School Basketball tournament was a superior product to the multi-class tournament we have today.  

[temptation]

After what I have witnessed recently in international competitions, I am just sitting over here wondering why we still call our best NBA team “world champions” every June, lol.

[CoachGallogly]

10 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

The single class Indiana High School Basketball tournament was a superior product to the multi-class tournament we have today.  

Yes and?