Danville appeal denied

[gindie]

https://wibc.com/484817/ihsaa-responds-to-complaint-filed-by-danville-football/

[Bobref]

[FastpacedO]

8 hours ago, Bobref said:

Expected with what is written in the by-laws. Very respectable letter sent out to the Danville community from the school corporation.

Congrats to the Seniors on a terrific season and I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

To the returning players, give it all you have in the off season come back stronger and give it heck next season.

To the coaches lift their chins up, you have a great staff and will rebound and have them working hard towards a goal next year. Best of luck Gents.

[Muda69]

Were the Danville coaches and administrators really hoping the IHSAA would overturn the results of this game?  

And what exactly is meant by "the administrative actions by the host site"?

[Bobref]

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

And what exactly is meant by "the administrative actions by the host site"?

Just a guess, but there were reports that the Brebeuf AD was one of the people who confronted the officials on the field after the play was over, but before the ruling was made.

[RegionFBFan]

25 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Were the Danville coaches and administrators really hoping the IHSAA would overturn the results of this game?  

And what exactly is meant by "the administrative actions by the host site"?

I highly doubt that they believed the result would be overturned.

I think they achieved what they wanted which was a public statement from IHSAA that the officials were wrong. 

[wabashalwaysfights]

44 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Were the Danville coaches and administrators really hoping the IHSAA would overturn the results of this game?  

No, they knew that the result would not be overturned.  This was more to formally bring attention (as opposed to the informal attention brought here and on social media) to the processes outlined in the letter.  

[1st_and_10]

For Clarity... This wasn't an appeal.  Per IHSAA by-laws there is no appeal process.  This was a complaint.

[crimsonace1]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

Just a guess, but there were reports that the Brebeuf AD was one of the people who confronted the officials on the field after the play was over, but before the ruling was made.

From what I've heard, the AD was probably as more involved than the coaches in confronting the officials prior to the flag being thrown. That's almost certainly what "administrative actions" refers to. 

[Sledge]

14 hours ago, Bobref said:

..."and apologized to the Danville community for what they had to endure this week" is WILD

[Daniel_Bragg]

They wanted the IHSAA to say that the call was wrong, and they basically got that.  I don't believe anyone thought that the result was going to get overturned.

[PHJIrish]

It was clear that someone from the Brebeuf sideline did point to the Danville sideline to an official before they gathered to make their decision.  It's clear in the replay that was the case.  I have deleted my Channel 23 recording so I can't post that.

Anyway, it wasn't going to be changed, but they got some clarity, and I hope it helped and they will be able to get over it.  It is bad for the seniors that it ended that way but life isn't always fair.

[Plymouthfan91]

This whole thing is funny.  Danville couldn't stop a last second touchdown at the end of regulation and even the ensuing 2pt play.  To even make the claim that the officials lost the game for them is not what they should be worried about.  They should be worried about their end of game coaching and playing.  It is the typical sour grapes approach that we see all too often anymore.  I'm sorry it happened the way that it did but they did it to themselves.

[WCGrad92]

If the kid that intercepted the ball had just taken a knee instead of scoring, Danville would have won the game 36-35,  i know thats hard on a kid to have the awareness and football knowledge to realize if I just go down and not score we win.  there was 18 seconds on the clock when he scored that TD,  Brebeuf i dont believe had any timeouts, or maybe 1,  run out the clock win the game

 

[JustRules]

8 hours ago, WCGrad92 said:

If the kid that intercepted the ball had just taken a knee instead of scoring, Danville would have won the game 36-35,  i know thats hard on a kid to have the awareness and football knowledge to realize if I just go down and not score we win.  there was 18 seconds on the clock when he scored that TD,  Brebeuf i dont believe had any timeouts, or maybe 1,  run out the clock win the game

 

They had 2 timeouts but your point is still valid. They take 3 knees and the game is over.

[slice60]

On 11/1/2024 at 2:07 PM, Plymouthfan91 said:

This whole thing is funny.  Danville couldn't stop a last second touchdown at the end of regulation and even the ensuing 2pt play.  To even make the claim that the officials lost the game for them is not what they should be worried about.  They should be worried about their end of game coaching and playing.  It is the typical sour grapes approach that we see all too often anymore.  I'm sorry it happened the way that it did but they did it to themselves.

True. But after Danville scored a TD in OT, the Danville stopped Brebeuf for 4 plays...then Brebeuf was given a 5th down.

[PHJIrish]

In my almost 70 years of watching high school football in Indiana,  I cannot remember ever seeing a penalty called after a game had "ended."  

[Yuccaguy]

18 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

In my almost 70 years of watching high school football in Indiana,  I cannot remember ever seeing a penalty called after a game had "ended."  

Never done it in FB, but I have done it in Baseball.  A few ejections over 40+ years....

Then hit with the comment "The game is over, you can't eject me!"  Well, that didn't end well for the offender(s)...  😄

Edited November 3, 2024 by Yuccaguy

[miner_35]

2 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

In my almost 70 years of watching high school football in Indiana,  I cannot remember ever seeing a penalty called after a game had "ended."  

I will say this once again, the game is not considered over until the Referee holds the ball over his head or worst case the officials leave the field. The referee never did this and the officials never left the field. They deemed it illegal substitution or illegal participation instead of what it truly was, an unsportsmanlike conduct for a non player entering the field during the play. We had time to see the replay and hear about it from others. They had a five minute discussion and just happened to get it wrong. I can guarantee they won’t again and they will feel terrible about it for a long time to come.
 

The fact that is is over a week old and we are still discussing it is crazy. Is Brebeuf playing next week? No. I understand this would be one more game at least and it would have been decided by the players. They more than likely would have been beat, just like Brebeuf. The state championship was not decided in this game.

[JustRules]

10 hours ago, miner_35 said:

I will say this once again, the game is not considered over until the Referee holds the ball over his head or worst case the officials leave the field. The referee never did this and the officials never left the field. They deemed it illegal substitution or illegal participation instead of what it truly was, an unsportsmanlike conduct for a non player entering the field during the play. We had time to see the replay and hear about it from others. They had a five minute discussion and just happened to get it wrong. I can guarantee they won’t again and they will feel terrible about it for a long time to come.
 

The fact that is is over a week old and we are still discussing it is crazy. Is Brebeuf playing next week? No. I understand this would be one more game at least and it would have been decided by the players. They more than likely would have been beat, just like Brebeuf. The state championship was not decided in this game.

Illegal substitution is also a non-player foul and probably the better call than UNS, but both get the same result. Otherwise I agree with you. This doesn't happen that often and the crew had to piece together what they believe happened. Maybe 1 or 2 officials saw the players come on the field, and they were also focused on action of the play itself while that happened. They wanted nothing more than to get it right and believe based on the information they had at the time they got it right. When crazy plays like that happen, we sometimes get crazy results. Danville stays on the sideline until the whistle blows and none of this is being discussed. I get why they thought the play was over and got excited. But they are not 100% without responsibility here.

[PHJIrish]

It's over now!

[slice60]

7 hours ago, JustRules said:

Illegal substitution is also a non-player foul and probably the better call than UNS, but both get the same result. Otherwise I agree with you. This doesn't happen that often and the crew had to piece together what they believe happened. Maybe 1 or 2 officials saw the players come on the field, and they were also focused on action of the play itself while that happened. They wanted nothing more than to get it right and believe based on the information they had at the time they got it right. When crazy plays like that happen, we sometimes get crazy results. Danville stays on the sideline until the whistle blows and none of this is being discussed. I get why they thought the play was over and got excited. But they are not 100% without responsibility here.

If just 1 of the refs threw a flag WHEN THE INFRACTION APPARENTLY OCCURRED, maybe it would be slightly more acceptable. When the crew huddles up with the home team AD chirping at them while the teams shake hands, things start to look a bit wonky.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, slice60 said:

If just 1 of the refs threw a flag WHEN THE INFRACTION APPARENTLY OCCURRED, maybe it would be slightly more acceptable. When the crew huddles up with the home team AD chirping at them while the teams shake hands, things start to look a bit wonky.

I agree with your view, to a point. It is perfectly acceptable - even encouraged - for the crew to huddle in a situation like this. Obviously a critical play. Also, obviously a very unusual play. Typically, the Referee will consult the rest of the crew to make sure he has all relevant information before making a ruling. So, a so-called “late flag” is not an issue here. But I agree with you that the crew should have excluded everyone from their crew huddle before their decision was made. Regardless of what was said, the optics were terrible. And optics are a big part of selling the legitimacy of a big call like that.

[JustRules]

15 hours ago, Bobref said:

I agree with your view, to a point. It is perfectly acceptable - even encouraged - for the crew to huddle in a situation like this. Obviously a critical play. Also, obviously a very unusual play. Typically, the Referee will consult the rest of the crew to make sure he has all relevant information before making a ruling. So, a so-called “late flag” is not an issue here. But I agree with you that the crew should have excluded everyone from their crew huddle before their decision was made. Regardless of what was said, the optics were terrible. And optics are a big part of selling the legitimacy of a big call like that.

I watched the broadcast and they showed the crew within 40 seconds of the down ending. There was no personnel from either team involved in a huddle. The coaches were near and trying to get involved but the crew did a good job keeping them out and moving away from them and the coaches complied. Just because the AD may have threatened the crew with calling Faulkens doesn't mean that had any influence in their discussion. Agreed an immediate flag would have better, this is an unusual and whoever saw the players on the field (most likely the U or B) wasn't exactly sure there was a foul that would extend the game so wanted to confer with the crew to make sure. Can you imagine the anger the other way if they signaled illegal substitution or unsportsmanlike conduct and correctly still ended the game? Based on the video, that probably would have been the correct call, but it wouldn't have changed the outrage from the game. It would have only changed which team was screaming.

[Bash Riprock]

18 minutes ago, JustRules said:

I watched the broadcast and they showed the crew within 40 seconds of the down ending. There was no personnel from either team involved in a huddle. The coaches were near and trying to get involved but the crew did a good job keeping them out and moving away from them and the coaches complied. Just because the AD may have threatened the crew with calling Faulkens doesn't mean that had any influence in their discussion. Agreed an immediate flag would have better, this is an unusual and whoever saw the players on the field (most likely the U or B) wasn't exactly sure there was a foul that would extend the game so wanted to confer with the crew to make sure. Can you imagine the anger the other way if they signaled illegal substitution or unsportsmanlike conduct and correctly still ended the game? Based on the video, that probably would have been the correct call, but it wouldn't have changed the outrage from the game. It would have only changed which team was screaming.

But getting the call right does matter as to which team is screaming.  While its sad for any senior to conclude their football playing career regardless of which team, its still easier to swallow if the game deciding call is the correct one.

Your comment feels a little like rationalizing that it doesn't matter.  I struggle with that.....