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21-22 DOE Enrollments


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22 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Out of likes - but thanks for this.

Looks like New Pal will be joining 4A south again.  And the sectionals should be fairly easy to redraw IMO.

Bosse comes up to 4A - pushing Northview to Sectional 22. 

Bedford and Edgewood take South Dearborn and Madison's spots in 23.

New Pal added to 21 lets Muncie Central go "north."

And of course 22 adds Chatard and Brebeuf in with Roncalli, which pushes Western, Frankfort and Lebanon back north as well.  Sorry Beech Grove, Northview, Attucks, Shortridge, and Indy Washington.  

Brebeuf might be going to 4A. 
 

looking at it…they might have a serious boom on their hands. 
 

2016-2021 they show enrollments of like 100-150 per class.  But for the next 4 classes they are showing 200+ per and are sitting at 841 right now only about 40 behind Bosse 

 

as for Gibson Southern….maybe they are on 4A in the next cycle based on enrollment alone?  Current upper classes are a little on the lighter side with 147 and 171….that Junior class of 147 is really small considering my graduating class from Gibson Southern in 2013 was 156.  However the freshman and sophomore classes currently are showing 191 and 195.  The next cycle GS could be at 800 but idk if it will be enough to bump to 4A. Would need to see decline of size from a number of 4A schools but I don’t know if that’s really going to happen looking at it 

 

edit: I realized the left hand columns were a ranking not enrollment.  Still looks like Brebeuf is in a boom but the 100-150 students is baseless 

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1 hour ago, Punttheball said:

i think they released a more recent statement about trying to equal out the classes better.  Not sure what that means.

There's been some discussion about changing the class structure in the 4-class sports to add a fifth class and use hard enrollment cutoffs. 

Football isn't changing because of the need for 32 or 64 teams in each class due to playing one week and keeping everyone playing the same number of tournament rounds. 

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17 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

There's been some discussion about changing the class structure in the 4-class sports to add a fifth class and use hard enrollment cutoffs. 

Football isn't changing because of the need for 32 or 64 teams in each class due to playing one week and keeping everyone playing the same number of tournament rounds. 

Man, get with what we are talking about.  They are trying to make the classes more balanced.  They do not want a team to go over two weeks without playing.  Everybody knows the 32/64 number. 

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2 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Man, get with what we are talking about.  They are trying to make the classes more balanced.  They do not want a team to go over two weeks without playing.  Everybody knows the 32/64 number. 

I don't understand what you mean with "classes more balanced?" The football setup is pretty well set in stone. I don't know how you can "balance" the classes any more than they already are. 

1 hour ago, WCGrad92 said:

Monrovia is at 531 and seems like 3A for us as well.  like you said, Time to get to work.

Also, it appears Monrovia & Cascade will both be 3A in hoops (as well as Heritage Christian). Will make some big changes in Central Indiana. 

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34 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

I don't understand what you mean with "classes more balanced?" The football setup is pretty well set in stone. I don't know how you can "balance" the classes any more than they already are. 

Ok, I will go real slow so you can keep up.  There were 30 teams in 6A last year and 37 in 5A.  That is not 32 and 32.  Two 6A programs were in the Sectional finals without playing a game.  This is not balanced.  

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40 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Ok, I will go real slow so you can keep up.  There were 30 teams in 6A last year and 37 in 5A.  That is not 32 and 32.  Two 6A programs were in the Sectional finals without playing a game.  This is not balanced.  

That was an anomaly due to there having been more than 320 football-playing schools to start the cycle + some success factor adjustments (and the Elkhart/Hammond consolidations) that caused 6A to dip below 32 teams (because the IHSAA didn't want to move teams up for a year) and the weird COVID year extending the cycle by one year. 

The plan, since six classes began, has always been 32 in 6A, 64 in 4A-1A and the remainder in 5A if there are 320+ schools, and 32 in 6A/5A and the remainder spread equally among 4A-1A if there are fewer than 320. 

It's looking like 32/32/63/63/63/63 this time because there appear to be 316 football-playing schools. 

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8 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

That was an anomaly due to there having been more than 320 football-playing schools to start the cycle + some success factor adjustments (and the Elkhart/Hammond consolidations) that caused 6A to dip below 32 teams (because the IHSAA didn't want to move teams up for a year) and the weird COVID year extending the cycle by one year. 

The plan, since six classes began, has always been 32 in 6A, 64 in 4A-1A and the remainder in 5A if there are 320+ schools, and 32 in 6A/5A and the remainder spread equally among 4A-1A if there are fewer than 320. 

It's looking like 32/32/63/63/63/63 this time because there appear to be 316 football-playing schools. 

BINGO

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Do we know what the discrepancy is between the first set of numbers released for enrollments and the second? I've heard the first was fall enrollment numbers and the second is the spring enrollment numbers which is what the IHSAA usually goes by, this is what I was told can anyone confirm or deny? 

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After having traveled three and fours hours to sectional games multiple times years ago, I realized the IHSAA is not a place for logic or bold, new ideas. With the sectional drive times they have been imposing for the last two decades as well as having two of the top teams in a class playing each other in an opening round due to the IHSAA balls system, they could easily take a whole semistate and seed it with top seed hosts. Are there challenges, yes. Are these challenges greater or less  than the awkward current melee? 

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10 minutes ago, Cappy said:

Do we know what the discrepancy is between the first set of numbers released for enrollments and the second? I've heard the first was fall enrollment numbers and the second is the spring enrollment numbers which is what the IHSAA usually goes by, this is what I was told can anyone confirm or deny? 

The first set had a bizarrely wrong number for Bremen and had 10-year-old numbers for several private schools. 

IHSAA uses fall enrollment numbers for classification. 

8 minutes ago, ragdoll said:

After having traveled three and fours hours to sectional games multiple times years ago, I realized the IHSAA is not a place for logic or bold, new ideas. With the sectional drive times they have been imposing for the last two decades as well as having two of the top teams in a class playing each other in an opening round due to the IHSAA balls system, they could easily take a whole semistate and seed it with top seed hosts. Are there challenges, yes. Are these challenges greater or less  than the awkward current melee? 

Bottom line, when you have 8 teams in a sectional and there aren't any teams near you, some insane sectional travel is somewhat unavoidable. 

I post the maps for a reason. You can look at them and see how you'd do things differently. 

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4 minutes ago, Cappy said:

Do we know what the discrepancy is between the first set of numbers released for enrollments and the second? I've heard the first was fall enrollment numbers and the second is the spring enrollment numbers which is what the IHSAA usually goes by, this is what I was told can anyone confirm or deny? 

I just went through and looked at what was different from the previous version and not trying to stir the pot, the marjoity of discrepancies were with the Private schools. Almost every single one of them had discrepancies in what was reported. Here are the ones I captured.

School / First Set / Second Set / Difference

Decatur Central / 2,011 / 1,812 / -199
Cathedral / 1,251 / 1,073 / -178
FW Dwenger / 1,013 / 928 / -85
Roncalli
 / 1,090 / 1,081 / -9
Brebeuf / 806 / 841 / +35
SB St. Joseph 
/ 813 / 806 / -7
Evans. Memorial / 791 / 556 / -235
Guerin Catholic 
/ 572 / 740 / +168
Mishawaka Marian 
/ 676 / 690 / +14
Chatard
 / 662 / 667 / +5
FW Concordia 
/ 645 / 610 / -35
Bremen / 616 / 503 / -113
Andrean 
/ 587 / 408 / -179
FW Luers / 544 / 481 / -63
Evans. Mater Dei 
/ 522 / 496 / -26
Indpls. Ritter
 / 490 / 502 / +12
Hammond Noll 
/ 404 / 493 / +89
Providence 
/ 460 / 327 / -133
Indpls. Scecina
 / 332 / 439 / +107
Covenant Christian / 325 / 352 / +27
Lafayette Central Catholic 
/ 227 / 296 / +69
Indpls. Lutheran 
/ 245 / 224 / -21
Oldenburg Academy 
/ 208 / 179 / -29
Traders Point Christian 
/ 122 / 124 / +2

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2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I just went through and looked at what was different from the previous version and not trying to stir the pot, the marjoity of discrepancies were with the Private schools. Almost every single one of them had discrepancies in what was reported. Here are the ones I captured.

School / First Set / Second Set / Difference

Decatur Central / 2,011 / 1,812 / -199
Cathedral / 1,251 / 1,073 / -178
FW Dwenger / 1,013 / 928 / -85
Roncalli
 / 1,090 / 1,081 / -9
Brebeuf / 806 / 841 / +35
SB St. Joseph 
/ 813 / 806 / -7
Evans. Memorial / 791 / 556 / -235
Guerin Catholic 
/ 572 / 740 / +168
Mishawaka Marian 
/ 676 / 690 / +14
Chatard
 / 662 / 667 / +5
FW Concordia 
/ 645 / 610 / -35
Bremen / 616 / 503 / -113
Andrean 
/ 587 / 408 / -179
FW Luers / 544 / 481 / -63
Evans. Mater Dei 
/ 522 / 496 / -26
Indpls. Ritter
 / 490 / 502 / +12
Hammond Noll 
/ 404 / 493 / +89
Providence 
/ 460 / 327 / -133
Indpls. Scecina
 / 332 / 439 / +107
Covenant Christian / 325 / 352 / +27
Lafayette Central Catholic 
/ 227 / 296 / +69
Indpls. Lutheran 
/ 245 / 224 / -21
Oldenburg Academy 
/ 208 / 179 / -29
Traders Point Christian 
/ 122 / 124 / +2

@Titan32 you may have been on to something 😂
 

(full tongue in cheek comment before this turns into an argument among the board) 

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2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I just went through and looked at what was different from the previous version and not trying to stir the pot, the marjoity of discrepancies were with the Private schools. Almost every single one of them had discrepancies in what was reported. Here are the ones I captured.

School / First Set / Second Set / Difference

Decatur Central / 2,011 / 1,812 / -199
Cathedral / 1,251 / 1,073 / -178
FW Dwenger / 1,013 / 928 / -85
Roncalli
 / 1,090 / 1,081 / -9
Brebeuf / 806 / 841 / +35
SB St. Joseph 
/ 813 / 806 / -7
Evans. Memorial / 791 / 556 / -235
Guerin Catholic 
/ 572 / 740 / +168
Mishawaka Marian 
/ 676 / 690 / +14
Chatard
 / 662 / 667 / +5
FW Concordia 
/ 645 / 610 / -35
Bremen / 616 / 503 / -113
Andrean 
/ 587 / 408 / -179
FW Luers / 544 / 481 / -63
Evans. Mater Dei 
/ 522 / 496 / -26
Indpls. Ritter
 / 490 / 502 / +12
Hammond Noll 
/ 404 / 493 / +89
Providence 
/ 460 / 327 / -133
Indpls. Scecina
 / 332 / 439 / +107
Covenant Christian / 325 / 352 / +27
Lafayette Central Catholic 
/ 227 / 296 / +69
Indpls. Lutheran 
/ 245 / 224 / -21
Oldenburg Academy 
/ 208 / 179 / -29
Traders Point Christian 
/ 122 / 124 / +2

I have numbers from the Evansville Diocese. 

Mater Dei had 538 and Reitz Memorial had 791 in 2009-10. That was the first year of the Success Factor. 

No grand conspiracy. The IHSAA just didn’t update their spreadsheet. 

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53 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I have numbers from the Evansville Diocese. 

Mater Dei had 538 and Reitz Memorial had 791 in 2009-10. That was the first year of the Success Factor. 

No grand conspiracy. The IHSAA just didn’t update their spreadsheet. 

Wait memorial had 791 in 2010? And they are now barely 3A despite almost being SF’d to 5A? 

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12 hours ago, US31 said:

North Option B....I don't see Penn and Elkhart Driving past each other to go to those sectionals.  I'd flip them and that may be what happens.

My sense is the IHSAA wants all the North HCC + Carmel schools to feed into one regional (as you have in both your options).  Whether that is 4 in one and 2 in another, or 3 in two sectionals. 

I don't see any chance IHSAA spreads those schools out over 3 sectionals.

There has already been a statement by the HCC schools that they are making the travel all the way north 

12 hours ago, Julio said:

Why do people keep thinking that 5A will have 32 teams?  The state has already stated several years ago that they will put 32 in 6A and then fill up 1A, 2A, 3A, and 4A with 64 teams and the remaining schools will go into 5A.

Actually the state said 5-6A from here on out will have 32. It’s on there Twitter 

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17 hours ago, ragdoll said:

After having traveled three and fours hours to sectional games multiple times years ago, I realized the IHSAA is not a place for logic or bold, new ideas. With the sectional drive times they have been imposing for the last two decades as well as having two of the top teams in a class playing each other in an opening round due to the IHSAA balls system, they could easily take a whole semistate and seed it with top seed hosts. Are there challenges, yes. Are these challenges greater or less  than the awkward current 

Where did you drive that was 3 or 4 hours? 

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18 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

I don't understand what you mean with "classes more balanced?" The football setup is pretty well set in stone. I don't know how you can "balance" the classes any more than they already are. 

Also, it appears Monrovia & Cascade will both be 3A in hoops (as well as Heritage Christian). Will make some big changes in Central Indiana. 

🙂

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16 hours ago, Piratefan101 said:

There has already been a statement by the HCC schools that they are making the travel all the way north 

Actually the state said 5-6A from here on out will have 32. It’s on there Twitter 

1 hour ago, US31 said:

???

This wouldn't surprise me, it HAS to happen. Looking at the schools, I previously posted these options for 6A North. There are 10 schools NORTH of Indy in 6A. At the very least, 2 schools will HAVE to head NORTH to make up 3 of the sectionals.

My best guesses:

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff, Lake Central, Portage
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Westfield
Sectional 3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Zionsville

OR

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lake Central, Lafayette Jeff, Zionsville
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
Sectional 3. Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Westfield

There is precedent already set of sending Noblesville NORTH to a sectional with Fort Wayne schools. Happened just a few years ago. I think that is a guarantee.

That leaves your others options of either sending Westfield NORTH on US 31 to join Elkhart, Penn and Warsaw OR sending Zionsville north up Interstate 65 to join Lafayette Jeff with two schools in The Region. There is precedent set here as well with Zionsville being in sectionals with Harrison (West Lafayette) and McCutcheon previously.

If one of the two options I have listed here end up NOT being the sectional groupings for 6A North - I will donate an extra $50 on top of my normal $30 donation to the GID for the next year.

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2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

That leaves your others options of either sending Westfield NORTH on US 31 to join Elkhart, Penn and Warsaw OR sending Zionsville north up Interstate 65 to join Lafayette Jeff with two schools in The Region. There is precedent set here as well with Zionsville being in sectionals with Harrison (West Lafayette) and McCutcheon previously.

 

Can't say I'm going to miss Zionsville in that sectional with Harrison after the last two seasons.

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On 3/10/2022 at 3:28 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

This wouldn't surprise me, it HAS to happen. Looking at the schools, I previously posted these options for 6A North. There are 10 schools NORTH of Indy in 6A. At the very least, 2 schools will HAVE to head NORTH to make up 3 of the sectionals.

My best guesses:

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff, Lake Central, Portage
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Westfield
Sectional 3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Zionsville

OR

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lake Central, Lafayette Jeff, Zionsville
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
Sectional 3. Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Westfield

There is precedent already set of sending Noblesville NORTH to a sectional with Fort Wayne schools. Happened just a few years ago. I think that is a guarantee.

That leaves your others options of either sending Westfield NORTH on US 31 to join Elkhart, Penn and Warsaw OR sending Zionsville north up Interstate 65 to join Lafayette Jeff with two schools in The Region. There is precedent set here as well with Zionsville being in sectionals with Harrison (West Lafayette) and McCutcheon previously.

If one of the two options I have listed here end up NOT being the sectional groupings for 6A North - I will donate an extra $50 on top of my normal $30 donation to the GID for the next year.

IHSAA isn't going to send 3 different outlier schools north into 3 different sectionals. 

Here's the likely map for the north. 

1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff
2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Carroll
3: Homestead, FW Northrop, Westfield, Noblesville
4: Carmel, Zionsville, HSE, Fishers

or

1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Elkhart
2: Penn, Warsaw, FW Northrop, Carroll
3: Homestead, Noblesville, HSE, Fishers
4: Westfield, Carmel, Zionsville, Lafayette Jeff

I expect the first option to carry. 

The south is almost set in stone: 

5: NC/LC/LN/Cathedral
6: Pike/BD/Brownsburg/Avon
7: Southport/Perry/Tech/WC
8: Jeff/CN/CG/FC

You're pointing out precedents - there is no precedent for sending a Hamilton County school up U.S. 31 to the Michigan border. While there are precedents on pairing Zionsville with Lafayette-area schools in *5A*, in 6A, generally Carmel & Zionsville are tied together, as are HSE/Fishers. Putting those four together makes for a sensible sectional field. The key is going to be, you're likely going to have to split up the three Allen County schools somehow just because there are nine "north" schools north of the U.S. 30 corridor and seven south. Someone is going to have to get tied into the Central Indiana schools. Homestead makes the most sense because it's the farthest southwest and closest to I-69 ... and Noblesville, HSE & Fishers are also a short distance off I-69. 

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On 3/10/2022 at 3:28 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

This wouldn't surprise me, it HAS to happen. Looking at the schools, I previously posted these options for 6A North. There are 10 schools NORTH of Indy in 6A. At the very least, 2 schools will HAVE to head NORTH to make up 3 of the sectionals.

My best guesses:

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff, Lake Central, Portage
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Westfield
Sectional 3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Zionsville

OR

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lake Central, Lafayette Jeff, Zionsville
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
Sectional 3. Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Westfield

There is precedent already set of sending .....

It may be my explanation...but  my previous posts might be misunderstood somewhere...I've never said there wouldn't be an HCC school going somewhere north (although if HSE & Fishers ended up in a sectional with Homestead and Warsaw....can't we argue that Homestead and Warsaw are going south, just as much as HSE & Fishers are going north????)🤪

What I said was I don't see anyway the IHSAA splits the 6A north metro schools into 3 sectionals.  I think the IHSAA would STRONGLY prefer at least one non-indy 6A school makes a semi-state appearance (6A south is basically guaranteed to be two metro schools). 

Zionsville, Carmel, Westfield, Noblesville, Fishers, & HSE will be spread out thru sectionals 3 & 4, so that no matter what only one makes it out of the regional.  There are some different ways to skin that cat. 

Just my 2 cents....worth that much.

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On 3/11/2022 at 9:38 PM, crimsonace1 said:

IHSAA isn't going to send 3 different outlier schools north into 3 different sectionals. 

Here's the likely map for the north. 

1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff
2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Carroll
3: Homestead, FW Northrop, Westfield, Noblesville
4: Carmel, Zionsville, HSE, Fishers

or

1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Elkhart
2: Penn, Warsaw, FW Northrop, Carroll
3: Homestead, Noblesville, HSE, Fishers
4: Westfield, Carmel, Zionsville, Lafayette Jeff

I expect the first option to carry. 

The south is almost set in stone: 

5: NC/LC/LN/Cathedral
6: Pike/BD/Brownsburg/Avon
7: Southport/Perry/Tech/WC
8: Jeff/CN/CG/FC

You're pointing out precedents - there is no precedent for sending a Hamilton County school up U.S. 31 to the Michigan border. While there are precedents on pairing Zionsville with Lafayette-area schools in *5A*, in 6A, generally Carmel & Zionsville are tied together, as are HSE/Fishers. Putting those four together makes for a sensible sectional field. The key is going to be, you're likely going to have to split up the three Allen County schools somehow just because there are nine "north" schools north of the U.S. 30 corridor and seven south. Someone is going to have to get tied into the Central Indiana schools. Homestead makes the most sense because it's the farthest southwest and closest to I-69 ... and Noblesville, HSE & Fishers are also a short distance off I-69. 

In my opinion your second option is the best way to sectional the north 6A. There will have to be a divide somewhere. Bringing Jeff down 65 to Zionsville makes the most sense for them. Connect them with Westfield and Carmel. Send Noblesville, HSE, Fishers (further East in Hamilton county) up 69 with Homestead as they are the most south of the Fort Wayne schools.

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3 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

In my opinion your second option is the best way to sectional the north 6A. There will have to be a divide somewhere. Bringing Jeff down 65 to Zionsville makes the most sense for them. Connect them with Westfield and Carmel. Send Noblesville, HSE, Fishers (further East in Hamilton county) up 69 with Homestead as they are the most south of the Fort Wayne schools.

Sending Noblesville, HSE and Fishers up 69?  So Homestead will be hosting all 3?  There is a chance Homestead would not even have a home game.  A very good chance.  So it's not 3 teams going north, it's Homestead going south.

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2 hours ago, Staxawax said:

Sending Noblesville, HSE and Fishers up 69?  So Homestead will be hosting all 3?  There is a chance Homestead would not even have a home game.  A very good chance.  So it's not 3 teams going north, it's Homestead going south.

I wasn’t talking about who plays who and where. I was simply stating which teams will be together in the sectionals. Which I stated I agreed with the post I replied too. Come on now

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