Guardian Caps — Do They Work?

[btownqbcoach1]

18 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

I have no evidence or experience  but I believe  they can lead to bad habits.

so one might think I have protection and can tackle or run over anyone I want in practice with little to no impact.

if that behavior carry’s over to games or will lead to more concussions

 

That's poor coaching. 

[Whiting89]

1 hour ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

That's poor coaching. 

It’s been 20 years since I’ve played college and longer since high school but when I played I never recalled a coach critiquing a tackling technique in practice or film. Just out of curiosity do coaches reprimand and or offer feedback on technique now days? 

[Impartial_Observer]

11 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

It’s been 20 years since I’ve played college and longer since high school but when I played I never recalled a coach critiquing a tackling technique in practice or film. Just out of curiosity do coaches reprimand and or offer feedback on technique now days? 

This is one area that has changed since our playing days. 

[btownqbcoach1]

56 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

It’s been 20 years since I’ve played college and longer since high school but when I played I never recalled a coach critiquing a tackling technique in practice or film. Just out of curiosity do coaches reprimand and or offer feedback on technique now days? 

In a respectful way, imo, it would be negligent not to. 

I share clips all the time with my team, on hudl, about this exact topic. The clip will pause.. "Player A, you have to make sure your head is up when you are making contact here" for example. 

And, yes.. we've absolutely stopped practice to tell one of our kids "you can't hit like that" ... sometimes adamantly. 

But, as a rule... and this does go back to when I started playing football/having my dad coach me.. (2001)...

1. Helmet is not a weapon, nor is it there to initiate contact. It is there as safety. 

2. See what you hit. Always keep your head up. 

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

It’s been 20 years since I’ve played college and longer since high school but when I played I never recalled a coach critiquing a tackling technique in practice or film. Just out of curiosity do coaches reprimand and or offer feedback on technique now days? 

Playing back in the 70s, the only time I recalled critique on tackling from coaches was when missing a tackle or letting someone pick up extra yards after contact.

 

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

This is one area that has changed since our playing days. 

1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

It’s been 20 years since I’ve played college and longer since high school but when I played I never recalled a coach critiquing a tackling technique in practice or film. Just out of curiosity do coaches reprimand and or offer feedback on technique now days? 

20 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

In a respectful way, imo, it would be negligent not to. 

I share clips all the time with my team, on hudl, about this exact topic. The clip will pause.. "Player A, you have to make sure your head is up when you are making contact here" for example. 

And, yes.. we've absolutely stopped practice to tell one of our kids "you can't hit like that" ... sometimes adamantly. 

But, as a rule... and this does go back to when I started playing football/having my dad coach me.. (2001)...

1. Helmet is not a weapon, nor is it there to initiate contact. It is there as safety. 

2. See what you hit. Always keep your head up. 

As a coach over almost 20 years of youth football coaching, I'm pretty sure I spent more time critiquing safety aspects of tackling than effectiveness in tackling over those years.  And, as @btownqbcoach1 said, "sometimes adamantly."  As @Impartial_Observer said, it's one thing that definitely changed since us old folks played ... and for the better!

[Wildcat1992]

Someone clue me in on why they are worn during practice but not games?  You rarely see any full speed practices with a ton of tackling anymore.  Seems me that the risk of of high impact collisions is much higher on Friday nights than on a Tuesday afternoon.

[btownqbcoach1]

2 hours ago, Wildcat1992 said:

Someone clue me in on why they are worn during practice but not games?  You rarely see any full speed practices with a ton of tackling anymore.  Seems me that the risk of of high impact collisions is much higher on Friday nights than on a Tuesday afternoon.

I've asked myself that many times. 

[JustRules]

Purdue did a study several years ago and found there were more concussions from the repeated bashing of helmets from lineman than the big hits on runners and receivers. They latter group just gets more attention. Those players though also can get the repeated minor hits that could result in a concussion. I've always assumed those were the types of concussions the Guardian Caps were supposed to help prevent. The big hits to the head will happen no matter what you are wearing.

[bucksfan]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:17 AM, Bobref said:

From the data I’ve seen, the real utility of Guardian caps may well lie, not in preventing concussions, but in the repeated microtraumas to the head which many believe can, later in life, lead to chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

The NFL is not using them just for show. The above is correct.  Training your neck and traps also can reduce concussions and this is documented.  Here is just one.https://www.rutgers.edu/news/athletes-should-build-neck-strength-avoid-concussions-rutgers-researchers-recommend#:~:text=dizziness and nausea.-,A neck that is stronger%2C thicker or aligned in a,of Health Professions and the

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, bucksfan said:

The NFL is not using them just for show. The above is correct.  Training your neck and traps also can reduce concussions and this is documented.  Here is just one.https://www.rutgers.edu/news/athletes-should-build-neck-strength-avoid-concussions-rutgers-researchers-recommend#:~:text=dizziness and nausea.-,A neck that is stronger%2C thicker or aligned in a,of Health Professions and the

Just curious how much neck work is done nowadays?  When I played ball back in the 70s, our daily warm-ups had four drills that focused on neck strength and, in the off-season with weight training, we had a couple stations that also worked the neck as well.  In coaching here in Indiana, I didn't see a lot of neck-related work although I did implement some in our warm-up shortly before retiring from youth coaching.

[Impartial_Observer]

44 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Just curious how much neck work is done nowadays?  When I played ball back in the 70s, our daily warm-ups had four drills that focused on neck strength and, in the off-season with weight training, we had a couple stations that also worked the neck as well.  In coaching here in Indiana, I didn't see a lot of neck-related work although I did implement some in our warm-up shortly before retiring from youth coaching.

One of the benefits of all the neck work back in the day between Football and Wrestling did have a positive impact, very difficult to be strangled by hand. 

[Muda69]

Speaking of tackling:

Not bad technique?

[Bobref]

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Speaking of tackling:

Not bad technique?

Get that head in front!

[Whiting89]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/could-guardian-caps-be-used-in-games

[oldtimeqb]

20 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Speaking of tackling:

Not bad technique?

Honestly, that isn’t bad form. She should keep running her feet post contact, especially with the higher impact point. 
 

But the eye tracking and footwork to get into proper position are superb! 

[Donnie Baker]

On 7/27/2023 at 3:03 PM, Whiting89 said:

I have no evidence or experience  but I believe  they can lead to bad habits.

so one might think I have protection and can tackle or run over anyone I want in practice with little to no impact.

if that behavior carry’s over to games or will lead to more concussions

 

That’s what coaches are for, I swear to God if is

[Bash Riprock]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:08 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

On the face of it, our brains are suspended in fluid. When our head is in motion and suddenly stops your brain is still in motion until it hits the side of your skull. You can put all the padding you want over your head, but the fact remains when your head stop’s suddenly, your brain is still going to slam up against your skull. 
I sent a text to the local trainer and asked if he could provide some data as to their effectiveness. He responded with “they don’t work, if they did we wouldn’t walk on the field without them.”

Great explanation IO.  What you are saying is demonstrated in this video of Simon Pagenaud and his terrible wreck at Mid Ohio a few weeks ago.  I believe almost 7 rolls in this crash.  Fantastic head protection and you don't really see him strike his head a ton inside the cockpit.  Yet his concussion was so severe, weeks later the Indycar doctors have still not medically released him because of continued symptoms.  Incredible video.......

 

[Bobref]

Two more scientific studies conclude that Guardian caps have no effect on concussion risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9980188/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5634228/

[Punttheball]

Rochester has now worn Guardian Caps for a season in practice from Monday through Thursday.  We are starting our second season.  We wore them all summer at team camp and scrimmages.  Here is all I can tell you about our experiences so far.  No concussions in practice.  We had one in a game situation last season. But on top of that, we do a tackling circuit two days a week.  We emphasize near hip/near shoulder, trailing the back hip, seeing what you hit, hawk and roll, sliding the head off to the side on in the hole type of contact.  We also do not tackle live in practice in our circuit or in team time.  We tackle a robotic MVP dummy from Rogers.  

I cannot tell you that Guardian Caps help for sure, but I can tell you that our community, stakeholders, boosters, parents, and players appreciate that we have them.  

Somebody asked why they are not used in games.  They are legal to use in games.  We have not gone to that yet.

[Bobref]

30 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

But on top of that, we do a tackling circuit two days a week.  We emphasize near hip/near shoulder, trailing the back hip, seeing what you hit, hawk and roll, sliding the head off to the side on in the hole type of contact.  We also do not tackle live in practice in our circuit or in team time.  We tackle a robotic MVP dummy from Rogers.

This is why you cannot draw a simple straight line conclusion from anecdotal evidence that use of Guardian caps reduces the incidence of concussions. It is more probable than not that it was these other practices adopted that were the cause of the relative freedom from concussions.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Bobref

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, Punttheball said:

 We tackle a robotic MVP dummy from Rogers.  

 

Curious which model (and cost if you don't mind) you use?  I've seen the Dartmouth robot tackling drills on YouTube but I've always wondered if it was feasible at the HS level from a budget standpoint. 

[Punttheball]

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

Curious which model (and cost if you don't mind) you use?  I've seen the Dartmouth robot tackling drills on YouTube but I've always wondered if it was feasible at the HS level from a budget standpoint. 

The MVP Sprint is the same model as the Dartmouth robot I believe.  I think that Rogers bought the rights or licensing of the product.  We purchased ours for 3450 each.  Allows us to full speed tackle every Tuesday and Wednesday.

[ragdoll]

Michigan was intensely going all out hard cracking in the practice that BIG10 network was at. 

[Wildcat Willy]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:23 PM, foxbat said:

Playing back in the 70s, the only time I recalled critique on tackling from coaches was when missing a tackle or letting someone pick up extra yards after contact.

 

As a coach over almost 20 years of youth football coaching, I'm pretty sure I spent more time critiquing safety aspects of tackling than effectiveness in tackling over those years.  And, as @btownqbcoach1 said, "sometimes adamantly."  As @Impartial_Observer said, it's one thing that definitely changed since us old folks played ... and for the better!

We’ve come a long way from “getting your bell ring” when I played in the ‘80s.  I’m hindsight, I’m sure I had at least 1…possibly 2 concussions that were t properly treated. 

[dazed and confused]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:18 PM, Impartial_Observer said:

Remember the devices your wore around your neck to make your brain swell? 

 

On 7/27/2023 at 8:27 AM, Bobref said:

The device was called a Q-Collar. The theory was that the collar, by compressing the internal jugular veins in the neck, increased the volume of blood in the brain’s vessels, leaving less room for the brain to slosh around inside the skull. Theoretically, less sloshing = fewer and/or less severe concussions. I don’t recall any scientific data showing it actually worked.

I remember talking about the Q-collar a few years back when it was in testing…you can buy it here now !

Just now, dazed and confused said:

 

I remember talking about the Q-collar a few years back when it was in testing…you can buy it here now !

https://q30.com/ 

link didn’t work first time