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Quite a few on this forum thought we wouldn’t get to this weekend with HS foootball. I was optimistic but had my doubts. 95% of scheduled high school games in Indiana were played. We still don’t know all the answers for this pandemic, but congratulations to every member school, coaches, staff and players on staying disciplined and being a valuable source of entertainment in your communities. Let’s hope 2021 is closer to normal(whatever that will be) and we are all in the stands cheering our student athletes.

It’s always been interesting to me that private and parochial schools are grouped together as “PP” on this site when their enrollment process is tremendously different. Not sure what the difference is? Let’s start by looking at Indianapolis... There are four parochial (archdiocesan) schools in Indianapolis divided by north, south, east, and west deaneries with feeder grade schools. Those schools are Chatard (north), Roncalli (south), Scecina (east), and Ritter (west). The majority of students at these schools (and football players) attend their “feeder” deanery schools. As a southsider, I can only speak for Roncalli but 21 of their 22 starters are from south side Catholic grade schools. The one exception is a linebacker from Perry Meridian who followed Scott Marsh when he came to Roncalli from Perry. This is completely different than a private school, such as Lutheran, Cathedral, Park Tudor, or any other non-parochial private school in Indianapolis. These schools “attract” students from across Indianapolis and operate under different financial aid rules than parochial schools. For instance, Roncalli accepts vouchers OR financial aid qualifications, but not both. This means if a student qualifies for the voucher program and Roncalli’s financial aid program, they have to choose one or the other. This is not the case at private, non-parochial schools in Indianapolis, which is why kids are able to attend those schools for free. Not sure if this helps anyone understand the difference, but thought I would share as someone who has worked in private education who is confused by the “private/parochial” grouping, as those two distinctions operate completely differently. Parochial schools like Roncalli do not hold a “recruiting” advantage. Roncalli just won 4A state by 42 points but will have zero seniors playing division 1 football next year, while Hobart has two or three. This is not to say that parochial schools do not have an advantage socio-economically. But there are plenty of public schools that share that advantage as well (CG, Carmel, Zionsville, Fishers, etc.).

I follow these threads alot and from a fan of a school who last 2 seasons has watched their team get beat like drum by privates it seems the problem is 1 thing: location. I really have no strong feelings one way or another about it to be honest. But it seems all these arguments revolve around Indy, Ft Wayne, Evansville. Of course its an advantage when you can pull kids from all over these areas. If a kid can't hack it at a larger school they can go there. Also see the arguement of open enrollment for publics and yes that works in certain areas. But that isn't a case at 90% of 1A schools. Anyone ever been to Campbellsburg? Let me know how open enrollment helps. So again I think the problem seems to be more around small schools in large metro areas. In all honesty I can the arguement for moving privates out of 1A but also see Rock Creek Academy struggling to do anything so far. So what if it was all privates were minimum 2A, but still kept on enrollment based otherwise. 4 yr cycles where you have to make the state title game at least 3 times to move up and make it 2 times to remain up (i think points for sectionals and regionals are silly). This is probably cause true heavy hitters like Cathedral to move but not punish schools like Evansville Mater Dei. Just spit Ballin as I read these threads.

For the life of me, despite your eloquence, I don’t see the problem. And I do keep my ear fairly close to the ground when it comes to high school football. The sky is not falling. Everything is good. You’re beating the drum. But from what I can see it’s a very tiny one. And rightly so.

Don't quit your day job.

Not if you follow the law.

I am glad to see that the P/P debated has shifted away from recruiting/cheating. I can acknowledge that their is an advantage at a private school that doesn't exist at public schools. For instance, a few years ago, at my 20th reunion, we did a tour of the updated school. Included was a run down of student body information. It was stated that 91% of students at Chatard participated in at least one extra curricular activity (fine arts or sports) What I hear very clearly from this post is that fact. What I don't understand is why we can't acknowledge that the SF is at least a very large portion of the solution. It needs to be tweaked, but it is a very good start. In my opinion, there is little doubt that Chatard belongs in 4A. To answer the questions I read all the time about why Chatard doesn't volunteer to move up- why should they? Any good coach will teach the same thing, "play by the rules, and beat the guy across from you". I think we need to figure out the correct threshold to move up and stay up or go back down. Some schools are moved up because they have that one great class, others get moved up, and fail to stay up simply because of a down year (which I have heard Chatard might have next year). I think the energy and effort should be aimed there.

Evansville has a coordinating council, so Mater Dei and Memorial have the same tuition and salary rate for teachers. The same rate and number of coaching stipends for athletics as well. A member of an east side parish that attends Mater Dei does pay slightly more and vice versa for westsiders that attend Memorial. Non-parishioners pay about $3,000 more than parishioners. My general feeling is that the non-Catholic/non-parishioner population is where the majority of enrollment losses for the two schools has occurred. The new, better located North HS, public charter Signature school, and newly created Evansville Christian HS have attracted the families interested in private schooling environment without the Catholic faith.

LOL, I will second this "feeder" comment for the declining SAC. It's been obvious for the last 4 or 5 years.

Micah’s a very quiet, modest kid. He’s a great teammate.

I mistakenly included Barr-Reeve in 1A. No football for the Vikings. Adams Central would go to 1A and Madison-Grant would be 2A since they have a larger freshman class.

I agree they have the most upside. Could they also potentially benefit from the train wreck that has become South Bend Community schools? (I mean if a kid from the east side of Indianapolis can “re-locate” 20 miles west and lead a 1A school to a state title, why not?) I’m also intrigued by Merrillville going forward. Never thought I’d say this with a straight face but if they can keep the gravy train of Illinois/Region transfers rolling in, they could make some noise annually.

Great post. While I am fully aware of what happens and what benefits are given to coaches at the MiC/mega schools, I’m also conscious that Moore has a pretty damn good gig at CG that is just not possible at other places. I know my original question was “what can other 6A schools do to close the gap on CG” but your post made me think of how small school coaches would scoff at their benefits/daily schedule compared to their 6A brethren. There are just not enough hours in the day for these little guys to do what you are asking without taking too much attention away from their current crop.

I'm well aware of Coach Moore's track record. But it isn't all or nothing regarding administrative buy-in. There are many things other MIC administrators give their football coaches that Coach Moore does not get. (I won't get into details so don't ask.) Coach could whine about it or he can do what he can within the boundaries he has been given. I'll use one example because it is close to home: involvement in the school's youth program. It doesn't require AD approval or school board authority. If you want to change your program's culture you need to start with the little guys. Join the league's board and take an active role. Make sure the kids are being taught properly. Instill a winning culture while they are young.

Kids? 😀

It's one of those "facts" that never materializes, but that everyone takes as a truth. But it also defies economics EVEN IF THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO SCAM THE SYSTEM. As an example, LCC has 287 kids in the high school. The highest enrollment in 1A is 380. That means that LCC would have "wiggle room" of some 93 kids or 32% of current enrollment and still remain in 1A. It costs a non-Catholic kid $10,813 a year to attend LCC. Multiply that by the differential and, if the idea that LCC is "controlling enrollment," then LCC is foolishly foregoing over $1,000,000 a year or $4,000,000 over four-year careers in tuition to "control enrollment?" In the case of someone like Roncalli, it's even a crazier proposition as Roncalli has a 271-student "cushion" to still stay in 4A. At their tuition rate, $12,920 for non-Catholics, Roncalli would be foregoing over $3,500,000 annually or $14,000,000 over a four-year career in tuition to "control enrollment." Over the last 10 years, it would mean that Roncalli could have still won their two state titles in 4A and garnered an additional $35,000,000 if they just weren't so intent on "controlling enrollment." And it doesn't even speak to the bigger "malfeasance" because, if Roncalli has $35,000,000 to just "give away" over 10 years, you think they'd do a better job "stealing" students to win more than two 4A titles with a $35,000,000 war chest if that was indeed the intent. Someone should record the Catholic schools appeals made in the Catholic churches just to understand exactly why the numbers are what they are ... and it has nothing to do with "controlling enrollment." There's a decent amount of begging from the pulpit AMONGST the choir to take away that controlling enrollment argument pretty quickly.

And the coaches who wait for administrative buy-in will continue to lose to the coaches who take full advantage of the boundaries they are given.

Here, here! I will gladly toast the IHSAA leadership for the guts to see the fall sports season through. I hope they have the same resolve for winter sports as well. My son has classmates who have spent weekends out of state for travel soccer and volleyball during the month of November. I would 100x rather support the education based model of IHSAA over club sports.

Same thing. Will be fluid, just like FB. At worst, I can see teams only allowing 2 people in per player. Onward and upward. The best is yet to come.

I totally agree. Teams have good rides for a 2-4 year period. Sustaining that for more than 5 is what it should be.

Yep. A 1A sized drum. Come down to central Indy when this pandemic passes my man. I’ll give you a tour. It’s a different world down here.

My values? While I do feel for the fact that two of his previous schools closed, they were at least in close proximity to one another. I see this type of story repeatedly in my line/area of work. There is some assuming on my part but it’s fishy. Don’t be in so much denial. Had he ended up at Zionsville, he’d probably be a special teams player Bob. It’s not the PP argument for me here as much as it is the fact that ONE player can impact a game at the 1A level so much easier. Free agency and endless boundaries have reached the high school level Bob. If that doesn’t concern you, you are not paying attention.

It’s not easy to decide which is more enjoyable: the games themselves, or the post Championship Weekend whining & sour grapes.

We can still have 1st and 25, but the foul must occur after the chains have been set and the ball made ready for play on 1st down. Here’s an example: 1st and 10 for Team A at midfield. Team A comes to the line for the play. The play clock is running. As the left OT gets down into his stance he says to the B player across from him, in a loud voice, “Yo mama's so fat, when she fell I didn't laugh, but the sidewalk cracked up.” The umpire hears this and throws a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct on the A player. After enforcement, it’s 1st and 25 for team A at their own 35.

Thanks WWF !!!

Andy is wearing the white hat here. This is the crew at the 2017 North-South All Star Game. Andy was also the crew chief I worked with for my last season on the field. Great guy. Great official.

Oh haven't you heard? After the brilliant leadership of Pete Buttigieg, we are thriving now. We even have two-way roads downtown!

“Fair” enough

Does this mean all Indy schools should be bumped up a class??? 😂

Here's what I was able to pull. Note: These are unofficial and reflect 4-grade enrollment. With regards to Hammond, I merged Clark & Hammond's enrollments, as well as Gavit & Morton's, as is the consolidation plan. The Evansville schools, for example, tend to get a bit of an enrollment bump. I have no idea what Park Tudor's enrollment is, but they're solidly 1A. Danville's result tomorrow will determine whether it is 3A or 4A for the next two years. By this math, that will likely affect Delta (which goes down to 3A if Danville wins). UPDATE: I have made edits to reflect LCC being in 2A and Madison (not Madison-Grant) in 3A. IHSAA enrollment - Copy of Sheet1 (3).pdf

The thing about Chatard — and this has been true for many years — is that their attitude and philosophy are tailor-made for the big stage. They are the New England Patriots of Indiana High School Football. They will rarely beat you by out-athleting you. But they almost always beat you by maintaining their composure under pressure, not making mistakes, and being sound in all 3 phases. I understand that there have been a few times this year when the Trojans have been uncharacteristically generous with the penalty yardage. You can’t give away real estate against a team like Danville. But if they just play Trojan-ball, Chatard 28-14.

Or... ”the only meaningful statistic is games won.” or “I will pound you and pound you some more.” or how he thinks the cold is a state of mind or how he would refuse to give the state of Michigan a %!@ nickel of gas money. I also heard reports about sending the second plane in first for a tough landing at Penn State. Talk about a well-seasoned coach and you can have a certain defensive back from Clemson University back me up on this one. Right on! The game does change...