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No one even mentioned Matt Canada. ................ In other news, Tom Allen just finished a Bahama Mama and now getting ready for sunset dinner at The Stoned Crab.........

Our conference is about to go back to 4 private schools, 4 public schools. We dont have time to complain about any advantages there may be against us. We play who is in front of us. The names on the front of they jersey mean absolutely nothing on the football field. It is still 11 on 11 football. Our schedule this coming year... Greencastle and Linton OOC, and then Ritter/Scecina/Covenant Christan/Lutheran as well as Triton Central/Speedway and Beech Grove. We believe this schedule gets us ready to play anyone in our tournament.

If Kiser doesn’t get drafted in the first round he should have to give his award back.

The answer you seek is OBVIOUS - but since I'm a public school representative I guess I don't qualify to answer lol...

If you can't see the difference walking the halls of even the most homogeneous publics in comparison to any P/P....we can't even debate. Oh the money is a good thing...taking it anywhere isn't. I'm actually a Republican city councilman...go figure LOL.

And therein lies the issue: an undeniable, ridiculously homogenous student population that in itself should completely disqualify these institutions from being classified on that measurement alone.

If Linton and LCC ever play again you and @Miner_Pride will put up 10 pages alone. I do enjoy your prespective on PPs and Lafayette area. Just incase you wondered if anyone ever read it all. Now go ice those fingers....they probably bleeding

Bowen and Kiser played both ways and everyone saw them play both sides of ball in multiple state finals.

I have yet to see a game where a population type at a P/P school forced little johnny from a Public school to fumble, throw an interception, miss a tackle, or miss a gap assignment. So again how are they getting "screwed" exactly? You want to know why there are so many attempts to fix this issue, it is because of the incessant moaning and groaning, 99% of the time for things that don't exist that there is some sort of cheating. Chatard (which I have no affiliation with) has received a lot of grief over this for years. The talk about boundaries and feeder schools, they post their roster with what elementary school they went to. Guess what all but maybe a couple went to P/P elementary school in their feeder system. There have been plenty of Public schools right there with the talent to beat them. I bet you can go back and look at the game film or statistics and the big difference is they did not turn the ball over or didn't turn it over as much. The RB Kinnett that was a struggle to stop at 5'7" 165 lbs (in a cast) went to St. Pius X literally 7 minutes from Chatard. The DB Guy that had 3 Int's (6 Int's in the last two State Championship games) went to St. Matthew's 7 minutes from Chatard (about halfway between Cathedral and Chatard). They are good hard working football kids too, yet you have no problem saying they have an advantage. I could go on and on naming players. I know from first hand experience there are teams that are beat mentally before some of these P/P even get off the bus to play them. I look back over the impressive job Coach Moore has done at Center Grove since he arrived. What he did was instill his philosophy in every aspect of Center Grove and it started with the Bantham Football. They play disciplined, they make very little mistakes. They hit the weight room hard and he has put a major focus on building speed (having been the track coach too). He has built them into a dynasty. all something any team can do starting in their youth program. and filtering it into everything they do.

Why would you want a state championship knowing you had advantages your competition didn't?

You know, sometimes I like to do things for entertainment purposes. The other day, I emailed an athletic director at a private school in the state. Basically that my son was getting interest from some small D-1 and NAIA programs and we were interested in transferring him for his senior year to better prepare him for college. Mentioned he is a solid student. Top 10 in his class. Things like that. I feel like the AD probably should have just told me that transfers for athletic reasons aren't allowed in Indiana. However, I was referred to their Enrollment Director to set up a meeting. I didn't take it any further than that.

We'll pencil them in as the 2028 1A North representative. Blackhawk Christian should be bumped to 2A by that point.

Cignetti the guy. On paper, might be the best coach IU has hired in a long damn time.

The stated rationale for the voucher was to give parents who live in districts with poorly performing public schools the financial means to choose an alternative school. Obviously, in rural areas where there is no alternative school the voucher is not going to be of any benefit. Personally, I think having a choice is a good thing, but the income qualification standards need to be lowered from their present levels.

Nah, I said 6A slappies would chime in and within hours the CG mafia was sharing their thoughts... Palm of my hand I tell ya...

Your point is 100% valid even though you got the classic passive aggressive laugh from the usual suspect.

Former Center Grove standout DE earns Big 12 First Team honors!! Way to go Austin!!

So I'm not sure I qualify as the guy you are looking to answer. My parents both had Catholic education all of their life with my mom finishing from a Catholic college and my dad leaving Catholic college for the military and then finishing from a public university. I went to Catholic school through 6th grade and then did public school for everything else through college. Two of my kids have attended Catholic school, but all have also been homeschooled and attended public schools ... my three girls from Jeff and my oldest son finishing at Harrison this year and the youngest probably attending Harrison part-time for high school. Nonetheless, I've been thinking about this issue for a bit and frankly, haven't yet been able to come up with a set of items that works for the argument as to why p/ps, in general win, that can then be applied across the board. What I have been leaning toward though is something akin to the idea that it's less categories and more programs. When I look at the issue in short timeframes, like this thread does every season, it's fairly easy to generalize. Even when several short-terms are pieced together, that generalization is easy, but some things don't seem to specifically match up with the general premise. With that said, I'm coming at this very much so from an Indiana perspective with some additional insights from Texas and Louisiana; but mainly Indiana. The premise has often been, if there isn't some advantage, then how does x percentage win y percent of the time? @Bobref has pretty much trademarked on GID that correlation doesn't necessarily indicate causation. That got me to thinking through some things that, rather than focusing on the generalities and trying to make an all-encompassing theory, I'd look at some case studies and try to work from there. Also, and I don't recall who it was that asked the question in another thread, but what got me thinking about this was a general question that was asked about 6A ... which was never really fully answered or even really solidified. The question was, and is very similar to the question first posited in the thread, "Why is it that only four teams/programs have ever won 6A?" It went on to, and rightly so, point out that there weren't similarities between the schools as there are differences in size, FRL items, communities, offenses/defenses, etc. It just kind of ended up as a mystery. Four teams out of roughly 40 teams that have been in and out of 6A since its inception 11 years ago, roughly 10%, have not only won SOME of the titles, but ALL of the titles in that class. What is the categorization that defines that four programs that you could "bottle" or is it something much more complex that can't fit on a bumper sticker? So let me start and see if the idea can perhaps be expanded by others with some real discussion on things. The program that I'm most familiar with is LCC. A couple of my kids attended Catholic school until the 3rd and 5th grade, but I coached in a youth program there for 18 seasons. LCC first started playing ball back in 1958. As seen in a couple of other threads currently in play, while LCC has a mystique about it that has it mentioned as a storied p/p powerhouse, it's really been about the last 15 years or so that LCC has probably earned that mystique. It entered into a storied four-peat era back in 2009-2012, but prior to that, it was pretty much feast or famine according to season outcomes on Harrell's. So I'll ask the first question that catches my eye with LCC and the statements often made about p/p in general. If p/p have the automatic advantage, why did LCC have such gaps between its pre-four-peat timeframe? Starting from 1976, until 2009 ... a 34-year period ... LCC got out of sectionals four times with gaps of 13, 10, and 6 years between each. Incidentally, in every season for LCC, until 2021, when their season ended without a state title, it came at the hands of public schools ... only the last three seasons, in 2A, has LCC's season been ended by another p/p. BTW, not just one p/p-killer public school, although Pioneer has a storied tradition for jousting with LCC, but over a dozen public schools have delivered deathblows to LCC's post season. So if the idea that there's an inherent p/p advantage that LCC has, then why was it not there in force in the 34-year period and, probably more importantly, what were the MANY public schools doing that was causing LCC seasons to end really early in that timeframe? Of course, Noll is always mentioned. Noll has a very storied past in that it never seemed to have any p/p mojo outside of 1989 when it won 3A. Outside of that, according to Harrell's, Noll made it to a sectional championship only three times, never making it out of the sectional, and has been ousted in the first game of sectionals for the last decade ... all by public teams. Ritter has an amazing past. Five state titles with three in 1A and two in 2A. For a long time, they were one of the poster children for p/p dominance, but now, closing in on a decade, no one whispers their name anymore. Their last state title was in 2016; however, since then, they haven't made it out of a sectional. They've also not even been close oustings. The closest they got was this year's 23-point second sectional game loss to Eastern Hancock. Maybe they have a string of "bad classes" ... the opposite of those "good classes" that public school lament might SF them unfairly into the next higher class ... but, for all of the talk about p/p mojo, four losing seasons in the last seven and three of the last four would seem to indicate that reloading, which is fairly automatic for p/p schools as I've been told, would seem worrisome and not in line with the meme. Heritage Christian ... an often forgotten p/p ... maybe because they aren't Catholic. Only has around a two-decade history history according to Harrell's. Has back-to-back state appearances in 2007-2008 with one blue ring. Outside of that, two sectional titles in 2019-2020. Has a mix of being ousted by both public and private schools. Fairly good records, but not really drawing any of the p/p ire directed at the categorization as a whole. Culver Academy has been around since the mid-1980s, yet only has a pair of sectional titles spaced a decade and a half apart ... 2000 and 2015. Again, almost never referred to or draws the ire of the p/p category and I've NEVER in over two decades of being in Indiana ever once heard anyone talk about the unfair advantage that Culver Academy has, not only as a p/p, but a p/p that has had students on its rosters from foreign countries! Wanna talk about recruiting or being outside of a youth program circle? Also, Culver Academy used to be Culver Military Academies, so I'm pretty sure that their lack of state titles wasn't due to not being competitive. Again, I don't have a specific answer to your question because the general answer that folks hope is given doesn't fit with all of the categorization. Just the subset above actually refutes the generalized statements that tend to be made. Also, I see the issue as being more complex than many of the bumper-sticker takes that have been bantered around. I think there's something to be said for focused, driven groups in a school, but similarly, I would contend that Noll, LCC, and others have been equally focused, driven, etc., if the narratives are to be fully-embraced, but the outcomes don't seem similar. With that said, what I think MAY be an issue is that there may be advantages that come from said make-ups, but that they aren't uniformly autonomous and that what's actually happening, which dovetails back into the 6A questions is that programs, and not necessarily categories, have figured out how to wield/harness the power as opposed to demographics. I also believe that, and Ritter and LCC look like interesting cases for this, that while a program may be able to leverage some type of advantage, it isn't necessarily something that's inherent and automatic by birthright of categorization and, for example in the case of Ritter, it may be something that isn't eternal.

To the contrary, I think if the single parent said "my child needs the discipline, structure and accountability your school requires and I am willing to support the administrators, faculty and staff" then that to me is the exact kind of kid we can set on a higher trajectory. Right or wrong, the ease at which most families can become voucher eligible makes lack of financial resources an non-issue.

Now email the private school guy and tell him your kid is habitually truant…fails most his classes….doesn’t do any sports or extracurriculars….and was suspended twice last year for discipline issues…and you have so little money you can barely keep the lights on at home as a single parent. I bet my house you won’t get the same response from the p/p that a public school is REQUIRED BY LAW to give.

I could do similar job for Half that payout and been just as made fun of and laughed all the way to bank, however, not a great snapper

The poster is his dad. I found out he was on staff when Allen was the DC at IU. They came to Homestead HS for a 1 day camp. Pat and Mark Hagen were the D Line coaches. I have some not so good memories coaching against those Roncalli teams he was on.

Ugh. Thanks for that reminder. Wodicka was a dude.

Ok let’s see how high he gets drafted I’m just saying karalfitis and bell are better I never he said he was a bad player

Yep. Was fine with him winning…

1. He's from Pittsburgh, played QB at West Viriginia and has spent the majority of his time coaching in PA and the colonial states outside his stint at Alabama with Saban. Looks like most of his JMU roster is from the DMV and surrounding areas with a fair amount of FL kids. There's a fair amount of talent on JMU that has the potential to follow him which isn't uncommon in this climate. 2. There's currently three coaches on his staff that all have IU ties; Pat Kuntz DL coach (Roncalli/ND/IU GA 16-18), Bryant Haines DC/LB coach (Ball State grad and former position coach at IU), and Marcus Hall-Oliver DB coach/recruiting coordinator (IU position coach under Allen). Expect most if not all those guys to follow him as they will all be receiving major pay raises. He resurrected that Indiana-Pennsylvania program that his father once built, went 14-9 in two seasons at Elon as they were coming off 8 consecutive losing seasons, and then obviously inherited a strong JMU program that he transitioned into FBS going 8-3, 11-1 the last two seasons. Think you're selling his resume a little short. Recruited Phillip Rivers and Russell Wilson to NC State during his time as their QB coach and responsible for recruiting guys like Mark Ingram, Julio Jones, Donta Hightower, etc to Alabama.

Why would you want a state championship that means nothing because you had to get your competition moved away in order to win. I'd prefer if there were no classes, just one state champion.

This always turns into a ....I have to win this argument kind of discussion. Any good decent human being who really "cares about the kids" etc. knows there is an advantage in population type that skews enrollment. Why would someone fight to screw over so many good hard working football kids? Because it's always been that way? Why are there so many attempts to fix this issue in every state in the union? Seems like a lot of effort going into a problem that isn't real. I would just rather you guys man up and say....we like our advantage, we paid for it therefore we deserve it. I could live with that.

this level of critical thinking is why people should be lining up to leave public schools anyways

Well, did you say you wanted to transfer him for athletic purposes, or that you wanted to better prepare him for college? Those are two entirely different things. If this was our AD, then I would say he handled it exactly as we would want - put the prospective family in touch with the Enrollment Director.

Now email the same guy and tell him your kid has a SAT score of 1500 and wants to get into Harvard but isn’t good at sports. I bet he tells you the same thing. Not quite the “gotcha” you were hoping for.

Btw, Josh Fryar, just named ALL BIG 10 as a dude who could not sniff the award because he was an OL.

They weren't included because neither participated in the tournament, so wouldn't factor into the percentages for how many private schools won sectionals/regionals/semi-states/state championships.

6A: 3.1% (Cathedral) 5A: 0% 4A: 9.4% (Memorial, Brebeuf, Roncalli, Culver Academy, Dwenger, SB St. Joe's) 3A: 6.3% (Guerin, Chatard, Mish. Marian, FW Concordia) 2A: 12.9% (Hammond Noll, Andrean, LCC, Luers, Mater Dei, Indy Scecina, Heritage Christian, Ritter) 1A: 6.9% (Park Tudor, Providence, Covenant, Lutheran)

D front and corners needed

I voted for Blake Fisher a few years ago, I thought he was the most dominant player I saw

or CEOs.....Christmas and Easter only.

We call them the submarine Christians because they surface twice a year

My point was. Many get up at arms about Indiana Mr. Football (there is also a Gatorade Player of the Year nominated). Outside of 4 of the players that won Mr. Football since 1992 not many have gone on to the NFL. Therefor winning Indiana Mr. Football doesn't impact if they will or won't go to the highest level. Been plenty of players that didn't catch a sniff as even a position award go on to the NFL and be productive.

I wasn't comparing any stats between a DB and LB or between Yeast or Werner. I showed both of their stats backing up my statement "From that class of Mr. Football candidates Russ Yeast for Rams (Center Grove) and Pete Werner for Saints (Cathedral) are the only 2 really doing anything in the NFL" Didn't expect there would be an issue with that.

Aiden Labhart from Perry Central, Jackson Barnett from Scottsburg, and Konner Chase from Springs Valley all made the Indianapolis Colts Academic All-State Team. Congratulations to them!

No he was not. He would have been 2013 class and here were the Position Award winners (see below). McLaurin was a no brainer that year with his WR, RB, DB and Kick/Punt Returns.

They might win 5 years from now, so to be on the safe side, they will have to move up. 🙂

If they aren't very good they probably won't have kids come in from outside the zone.

It’s “highbrow,” one word. 🤣😅😂

I do not understand the mentality of “recruit the best high school quarterback we can get,” but then surf the transfer portal for a new, veteran QB every year.

I don’t care if he is going to Miami of Ohio or the Miami Academy of Hair Design - he was was the best HS player in the state of Indiana this year.

I wasn’t really talking so much amount numbers as I was quality. Read the line next to what was bolded. The quality of the student/athlete is different. Who would not be a good candidate specifically? I’m genuinely curious what you P/P guys consider a “risk”.

That's why you go to johnharrell.net.