Muda69 Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: George Gilbert, RCHS Grad, Hall of Fame. Great ties. 1 Quote
Lysander Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) On 12/4/2019 at 11:37 AM, 1st_and_10 said: I used a number of different things when I put this list together.. IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER: Cathedral Ben Davis Chatard Warren Central FW Dwenger Evansville Mater Dei Penn FW Luers FW Snider Carmel Center Grove Columbus East Roncalli East Central Hobart Andrean LCC Sheridan Jimtown Ritter Tri-West New Pal Northwood Heritage Hills Webo (Homer Pick 😉) Pretty good list (particularly given how quickly you generated it). Being from Southeast Indiana, I’d make a case for Lawrenceburg on that list. Historically a power in Southeast Indiana (well before there was an East Central) and a couple of State Championships the late 70s. Bearing in mind that 4A is as large of a school size as that portion of the State has, Lawrenceburg ruled the roost for many years there. Edited December 5, 2019 by Lysander Quote
Guest Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) Haven't started mine yet but am anxious to see how the following categories are weighted by folks and taken into account: 1. Wins/winning percentage as a program. 2. State championships. 3. Next level (collegiate/professional) players produced. 4. Mr. Football winners. 5. Other factors? Also, do heavyweights (4/5/6A) get weighted differently based on their success compared to their counterparts due to tougher competition? Edited December 5, 2019 by Guest Quote
Coach Nowlin Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Temptation said: Haven't started mine yet but am anxious to see how the following categories are weighted by folks and taken into account: 1. Wins/winning percentage as a program. 2. State championships. 3. Next level (collegiate/professional) players produced. 4. Mr. Football winners. 5. Other factors? Also, do heavyweights (4/5/6A) get weighted differently based on their success compared to their counterparts due to tougher competition? Oh we had a kid finish 3rd in Mr. Football in 2005, which was unheard of back in the day!!! Cannot believe 2005 is officially back in the day Quote
nmsu_aggie Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 I am more than a little biased as well, but would think that West Lafayette should be under consideration. Consider this data: Overall Tournament record - 71-34 (.676) Sectional record - 53-22 (.707) overall record; 14 championships 9 regional championships 5 Semi-State Championships 2 State runner-ups 3 State Championships 2 Hall of Fame Coaches (Gordon Straley & Ernie Beck) 1 Mr. Football (Daniel Wodicka) Current Coach, Shane Frye, has been at WL for 8 years with a record of 86-18 (.826) 2 Quote
BTF Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith 3 Quote
dmizers3 Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, BTF said: I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith I like it. Maybe you should go all QB rating and add bonuses for performance above enrollment class and multipliers that include Sagarin, Massey and CalPreps ratings. Of course you'd probably have to quit your job to come up with basically the same results you already have. Lol Quote
Staxawax Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 Pre- tournament in the 60’s Evansville Reitz in ‘61 shut out every opponent. That only adds to a historic record for what is not a very large school. Carmel in the 60’s was the small (5-600 students) playing and beating the Indy township schools..... Lawrence, Warren and North Central. Bloomington had that long winning streak, 80 some games I believe, from the mid-60’s to 1973. 1 Quote
Guest Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BTF said: I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith This is great stuff man. Nice work and while no system is full proof this definitely gives some legitimacy to any discussion folks want to have. Something that stuck out to me immediately was how much appreciation we should have for Sheridan... looking at the other schools in the top 10 what do they not have in common with any of them? Edited December 5, 2019 by Guest Quote
Staxawax Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, Temptation said: This is great stuff man. Nice work and while no system is full proof this definitely gives some legitimacy to any discussion folks want to have. Something that stuck out to me immediately was how much appreciation we should have for Sheridan... looking at the other schools in the top 10 what do they not have in common with any of them? They’ve had one coach! I’ve searched the internet for a list of all-time wins for each school. Does that exist? Quote
tango Posted December 5, 2019 Posted December 5, 2019 As for BTF's list and the Evansville schools... I'd move Reitz up (2nd. all-time in wins and 2 state titles in in 5 class format, plus lots of AP mythical titles). Quote
fenderbender Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 3 hours ago, BTF said: I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith I also like that it gives a few more points to the deeper playoff runs. Makes up for some teams being weaker sectionals. What a fun topic! Quote
BTF Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 33 minutes ago, dmizers3 said: I like it. Maybe you should go all QB rating and add bonuses for performance above enrollment class and multipliers that include Sagarin, Massey and CalPreps ratings. Of course you'd probably have to quit your job to come up with basically the same results you already have. Lol Lol, I have a few hours invested in that last one. If anyone wants to add to it, I'd be more than happy to share the numbers with them. Quote
foxbat Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Staxawax said: They’ve had one coach! I’ve searched the internet for a list of all-time wins for each school. Does that exist? It's not perfect, only goes through 2016, and there are some gaps in some of the teams, but this will give you records for each team annually. http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/schools.htm 1 Quote
captainobvious Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 6 hours ago, nmsu_aggie said: I am more than a little biased as well, but would think that West Lafayette should be under consideration. Consider this data: Overall Tournament record - 71-34 (.676) Sectional record - 53-22 (.707) overall record; 14 championships 9 regional championships 5 Semi-State Championships 2 State runner-ups 3 State Championships 2 Hall of Fame Coaches (Gordon Straley & Ernie Beck) 1 Mr. Football (Daniel Wodicka) Current Coach, Shane Frye, has been at WL for 8 years with a record of 86-18 (.826) West Lafayette should be on that list before Western Boone. Quote
BTF Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 3 hours ago, tango said: As for BTF's list and the Evansville schools... I'd move Reitz up (2nd. all-time in wins and 2 state titles in in 5 class format, plus lots of AP mythical titles). I didn't take number of wins or winning percentage into account. I'm trying to maintain a life outside of this addicting GID, lol. I also only went back to 1973 per John Harrell's website. I could certainly see giving points for winning percentage. But I think tournament success is a better indicator of a strong program than winning percentage. I don't want to pick on Homestead, but they went undefeated almost every year when they were in the NHC as a result of weak competition. Their season always came to an end in sectionals when they met up with Snider. Then you have the MIC where they beat up on each other in the regular season, therefore bringing down their winning percentage. Anyway, lots of factors to think about....for sure. Quote
MarshallCounty Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 16 hours ago, BTF said: I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman Bremen New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith Great list, just fixed the spelling. Sorry pet peeve. 1 Quote
foxbat Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 11 hours ago, captainobvious said: West Lafayette should be on that list before Western Boone. Recall that @1st_and_10 acknowledged that he was being a "homer" placing his team, WeBo, on that list. 1 Quote
miner_35 Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 19 hours ago, BTF said: I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. Top 25 1. Chatard 2. Carmel 3. Luers 4. Cathedral 5. Ben Davis 6. Roncalli 7. Dwenger 8. Penn 9. Sheridan 10. Warren Central 11. Hobart 12. Ritter 13. Snider 14. LCC 15. Jimtown 16. Center Grove 17. Mater Dei 18. Tri-West 19. Northwood Andrean 21. Evansville Memorial 22. West Lafayette 23. Franklin Central 24. Eastbrook 25. East Central Columbus East Adams Central Best of the Rest 28. Bloomington South 29. Scenina 30. Breman New Pal Pioneer 33. Jasper 34. Lowell 35. Heritage Hills 36. Western Boone 37. Lawrenceburg 38. Reitz 39. Linton-Stocton 40. Griffith I like this list, BUT by just going the leaders list, the numbers are not going to be right. Adams Central would be above Eastbrook, as would Linton and WeBo . Of course, my math could be wrong, but I have Eastbrook at 108, Linton at 116, WeBo at 118, and Adams Central at 212. I found this by going to the individual team tournament history. However, I might have added wrong, I ran out of fingers and toes! :S Quote
Bears62 Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 I posted this in another thread before but here is the list of the top 20 winningest programs in Indiana history. Note this list was made BEFORE the 2018 season. So this list is does not account for wins in the 2018 and 2019 seasons Quote
Coach Nowlin Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 https://ifca.net/download/Recordbook-Final.pdf Page 4 : Updated to include 2018 2 Quote
Guest Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 I know Andrean has had recent success (1997-present). Does this qualify them as an all-time great program? Did they have sustained success prior to 1997? Quote
BTF Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bears62 said: I posted this in another thread before but here is the list of the top 20 winningest programs in Indiana history. Note this list was made BEFORE the 2018 season. So this list is does not account for wins in the 2018 and 2019 seasons How far back do these wins go? I think if we are being fair about evaluating a program, going back to 1973 per JH is the way to go. Many high schools probably weren't even around when Cathedral, Reitz, Sheridan, and Culver were accumulating wins. Quote
MICFan34 Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 It's amazing to see some of these top 25 programs that have been good since the 80s. Tradition never graduates is a real thing for almost all of these schools in the top 25. Some of the top 25 teams though that haven't been uber-successful in the last decade or so (or more): Jimtown, Hobart, Roncalli, Luers, Franklin Central, Sheridan, Ritter. I know some of these schools still win sectionals and regionals but they're not as proficient and dynastic as they used to be. It makes you wonder what happened to those schools from their previous hey-days. 1 Quote
Screagle Posted December 6, 2019 Posted December 6, 2019 A success factor bump state title in inaugural year should be worth the most points JMO. Quote
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