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Frankly, I'd leave SF alone even if something else was adopted tied to FRL and perhaps SPED/disability stats. The idea of FRL coupled with SPED/disability as a starting point ends up being mainly just that, a starting point. As teams/programs progress, the idea of SF could still be something that can be used, although I would make a couple of tweaks to it such as making it a four-year rolling cycle to move up. If we are going to stay with the two-year cycle, then we should go back to 2 points to stay up; 4 if we go to a four-year cycle. The current move to 3-to-stay-up, in a two-year cycle, will mean too much yo-yoing.

Another perspective......Looking at a sectional from this area. Bishop Dwenger is at 21% FRL. Leo is at 20%. South Side is at 69%. Wayne is at 65%. New Haven is at 63%. East Noble is at 36%. Columbia City is at 25%. DeKalb is at 38%. Over the last 10 years, you can guess/rank teams based on the number of sectional titles they have won. While it's not THE indicator, or even the leading indicator, there is certainly a correlation between the FRL number and school success. Inside the building, it is hard to find common factors for student success or even the lack of success, and the same goes for test scores. The one thing that can be said is that the schools with low academic performance and test scores all have high FRL numbers. I like what Iowa is doing. And as @foxbat said the sped numbers are a factor as well. I have said for years the one key factor in the disparity in classes and looking at just the sectional above, it's not really about who is in each building, it's more about who is NOT in certain buildings that see high levels of success. While some want to think kids are being punished based on the performance of a class no longer in the school, the fact is those schools can show the drop in performance is nothing close to what a LOT of schools see after they have a run of great teams. Another fact is that MOST schools are being classified (punished if you will) due to the number of students who do not participate in anything. Someone made the comment that it's up to coaches and admins to get more kids out, but not much thought given to why kids are not going out. Real life hits a lot kids much sooner than it should. Kids are working to help with household income. Kids are helping raise younger siblings, cousins, neighbor's kids......or even their own kids.

Getting to the HEART of the "school choice/voucher" thing aren't we? Welfare for those who want a Tesla, paid for with the monies that go those who drive a 20 year old Chevy....

Not really. We are reasonable people for the most part.

You're right "bro" tough guys should just submit to being subjected to unfair systems. Cuz....that's what tough guys do. Or is it dumb guys...I get confused?

Dang it. Now I'm hearing Friday at Central.

I'm genuinely interested in knowing thoughts on how this "levels" competition. What's the rationale behind this? (real question, no sarcasm) Its an interesting concept, I just can't wrap my head around what this does to level the playing field. I've been in two different school districts with similar FRL percentages. One district was mediocre on the football field and the other has a great history with football. Just trying to understand why FRL athletes and disadvantaged toward non-FRL athletes. @foxbat I like the disability argument, as that correlates directly to the football field, but disability may not directly correlate with FRL. I very much understand the school funding side of this equation, so outside of that, how does this help on the football field?

Your numbers will be somewhat off though, especially in private school reporting, as the FRL for most private schools will be 0, actually non-existent, in the IDOE spreadsheet. In general, LCC belongs to the Diocese of Lafayette-in-Indiana and the Diocese has roughly 13% FRL across its network, but LCC has FRL around 19.8%. That won't make too much of a difference with regard to the new range that you have, but there are other private schools that would likely be counted as 0 because if the IDOE spreadsheet that are actually non-existent, but actually do have decent sized FRLwhich may impact class changes. The biggest of these, tied to rankings and traditional power, would be Luers which sits at around 42% FRL. As other private examples, Bishop Noll's FRL is around 56%, yet would likely show up with FRL as non-existent in the spreadsheet. BTW, Chatard's FRL is a bit over 17%, while Cathedral's clocks in a bit under 9%. For some comparison in the Lafayette area ... West Lafayette clocks in around 18.7%, nudging out LCC for lowest FRL in the area, Harrison is around 29.6%, Jeff is close to 69%, while McCutcheon is around 43%. Faith is listed at 0%, but I suspect that's because of non-reported numbers as opposed to no FRL at all.

Columbus East (5-3, 5-0 HHC) at BNL (1-7, 1-4 HHC) Jeffersonville (5-3, 3-2 HHC) at Jennings County (0-8, 0-5 HHC) New Albany (3-5, 2-3 HHC) at Floyd Central (5-2, 4-1 HHC) Bloomington South (4-4) at Seymour (4-4)

I believe it was Coach Gallogly - who was one of the best posters here back in the day when he was in Indiana - who was proposing using FRL numbers as a sort of reverse-multiplier. It's an intriguing idea, and is probably a more fair metric than some of the other ideas (like a straight multiplier) that have been thrown around.

Tells me that neither Valpo or Elkhart are very good . I would be shocked if Elkhart takes out Snider .

Yes, you are reading that correctly.

East Jeff FC BHSS

Hmm, according to this the entire Community Schools of Frankfort only has 12 students who actually pay full price for their meals, unless I'm reading it incorrectly:

Columbus East Jeffersonville Floyd Central Bloomington South

Whatever you say. You know, rather then questioning Snider, fresh off a state title, I think there are bigger questions out there like: 1) what the Hell is going in at Carmel? 2) why can’t Brownsburg win in the playoffs? 3) what has happened to Penn? 4) is Center Grove’s run of dominance over? 5) can Fishers play with the big boys? 6) is Westfield ready to win a state title. I am good with where Snider is

You are right, but my point is a D1 QB makes a ton of difference and has a huge impact on a game. You are more optimistic about Snider come playoff time than I am. It is no sure thing that Snider goes to Elkhart and wins. Then comes Carroll and then Westfield and then Crown Point and then a team from the South. Not likely. Last year, I would be on board 100%.

I am sorry that your life sucks so much. Best wishes

49-42 over Valpo and a 7-3 loss to Elkhart…what’s this tell us?

Listen, bait somewhere else, I am good with Snider being 7-6 vs. Carroll right now. I will become more concerned if they beat Snider the next 2 years. Hell, if they play again this year, I fully expect Carroll to win again. I have been honest all year that Snider lacks a good offense so no excuses from me.

It absolutely tells a story. Higher than I would have expected.

@GOLDRUSH1985 Penn should see CP, however, Valpo and Lake Central face each other on October 18, which will give a clearer picture of how they stack up directly. When Penn faced Valpo on August 23, it was a close game, with Penn barely securing a 49-42 victory. While Penn had some early-season issues, they have since stabilized and improved. Despite some remaining challenges, Penn appears to be in better shape than they were during that initial matchup with Valpo, positioning them as a more formidable opponent moving forward. Valpo unfortunately did not fix their issues much (if at all) after that game with Penn. I reference that game because Lake Central and Valpo share several opponents on their football schedules LaPorte – Lake Central won (24-12 on Sep. 20), Valparaiso won (42-7 on Sep. 6). Michigan City – Lake Central lost (14-20 on Sep. 27), Valparaiso won (20-14 on Sep. 13). Crown Point – Lake Central lost (14-42 on Sep. 13), Valparaiso lost (7-41 on Sep. 27). Chesterton – Lake Central lost (16-17 on Oct. 4), Valparaiso won (22-21 on Sep. 20). Merrillville – Lake Central lost (10-43 on Oct. 11), Valparaiso lost (7-35 on Oct. 4). Portage – Lake Central won (23-21 on Sep. 6), Valparaiso won (42-32 on Oct. 11) Looking ahead to the first round of Sectionals, given Penn's upward trajectory and performance that Lake Central has been giving this year, Penn is in a better position to advance. Lake Central will need to deliver an exceptional performance to overcome Penn.

Exactly what I was referring to haha, but in the 2016 state title run Westfield was the benefactor of the same scenario with only being away Round 1 at Jeff then home the next 3 weeks. The Semistate against Snider is still one of my favorite games attended with the pouring rain and coming down from 10-0 to tie it up at half. CP's only road game was Regional at Penn Obviously would love to see Westfield get homefield against CP, but also is fun seeing games in different parts of the state, had a great time eating and walking around the Square during the day up there last year.

Me too. I'm bummed. I was already planning a Bloody Mary Mother of God bar, hashbrowns, sausage links from Old Fashioned and pancakes. Now I guess it'll just be Busch Lights and hotdogs on Friday...

You’re better than that Temp. No moral victories for Snider ever. Carroll 29-28 2021 Carroll 28-21 2022 Snider 27-24 2023 Carroll 30-6 2024 Legit D1 QB makes a big difference period. Put Sullivan on Snider and you are talking state title in 2022 & 2023 in 5A and serious contender in 6A in 2024. The QB position is the most impactful position in football and you have a D1 power 5 QB, it makes a huge difference. If Carroll wins over Snider the next 2-3 years without Sullivan carrying them, yeah, then it is a trend.

For the record, I support an adjustment like this far more than a p/p multiplier or even a "Success Factor" that can potentially punish a group of kids for success had by their predecessors. While not perfect, it does seem to hitting the nail closer to the head. Factoring in kids with disabilities like Foxbat said seems pretty simple too.

I found some 2015 numbers online, but I had to go straight to administration for current numbers.

Columbus East Jeff Floyd B South

That's more about where the sexiest subdivisions are.

My Goodness Logansport is FAST, ATHLETIC, REAL GOOD football team

Just curious ... do Indiana schools keep numbers on participation rates in extra curricular activities in their schools as a component of their general state reporting?

This is probably their best team in a while, but they can be inconsistent at times. For example they manhandled a good 4A Reitz team but also lost to a borderline 2A/3A Mater Dei team and gave up 30 points to 3A Vincennes who has a losing record. They do have the capability to put up a lot of points and their front 7 on defensive is very good. Their top DL (Benny Patterson) is a four star getting numerous power 5 offers (including Michigan, LSU, USC). Their top LB (Gavin Leach) is a three star committed to Toledo but also getting many D1 offers. Their RB is also getting some D1 looks - runs hard, fast, tough to stop. They are beatable but it will not be easy.

South Gibson School Corp FRL is going to run about 25%. I will get the exact numbers soon.

Agreed. On the sunny side of things this is good news for the Bears. 🙂

Fballfan15 121 34 LC_Bears_04 119 36 BendNotBreak 119 36 Sailors 115 40 CoachSnyder 115 40 CoachDurham 113 42 mod22 113 42 footballer_02 113 42 WCGrad92 112 43 FarmerFran 111 44 Obi-Wan 109 46 nmsu_aggie 109 46 Donnie Baker 108 47 gonzoron 108 47 1st_and_10 107 48 foxbat 105 50 First_Backer_Inside 102 53 Muda 98 57 Huskyfan50 98 57 Daniel_Bragg 85 70 LCCAlum 74 81 hondo17 49 106 Coach_MarkBrown 23 132 CamB31 19 136 WarriorFootball82 10 145

Got to watch some of the Toledo at Buffalo game Saturday while doing some things around the house. Tough loss for the Rockets but got to watch your boy make some tackles led the team with 12. Was great to watch him play for a little bit.

6A Sectional 1: Coach Buzea will lead his Crown Point Bulldogs to another Sectional Championship. The Bulldogs will be too much for the Penn Kingsman to overcome. Crown Point handles Penn taking the Sectional 1 crown. 6A Sectional 2: Coach Tippman will have his Snider Panthers ready to play knocking off Elkhart setting up a rematch with Coach Dinan's Carroll Chargers after they beat Northrop easily. Carroll wins the Sectional 2 crown after the Panthers put up a big fight in a closer 26-20 type of game. This sets up Carroll to give the Crown Point one of their biggest tests this season in Regionals. 6A Sectional 3: I will take the Zionsville Eagles to end a terrible season for the Carmel Greyhounds. Westfield cruises over Harrison WL as the Raiders have had a decent season. Coach Miracle leads the Westfield Shamrocks to his first Sectional title over Zionsville. 6A Sectional 4: Coach Sharpe gives teams fits with his ball control offense and Noblesville is no easy out. If Fishers QB is healthy they win a close one with the Noblesville Millers. Coach Kelly leads his HSE Royals to a victory over the Homestead Spartans setting up a rematch with the Fishers Tigers. HSE vs Fishers is such a tough game to pick, I will take the HSE Royals to avenge a earlier loss in the rivalry game. 6A Sectional 5: Brownsburg cruises over an improved but not quite there Avon team. Ben Davis has improved and dispatches Pike to set-up a rematch at Ben Davis between the Bulldogs and the Giants. Brownsburg gets the revenge they have waited 365 days for and has a small moment of relief before they have to turn around and head into a showdown for Sectional 5 vs Sectional 6 Regional. 6A Sectional 6: Cathedral cruises past North Central in round 1. Lawrence North dispatches Lawrence Central after the Bears put up a fight setting up a Cathedral at Lawrence North showdown for the Sectional Championship. My heart wants to go with Cathedral with the Irish exploiting mistakes that the Wildcats tend to make, this is a tough one to pick and a doozy of a game. I feel like Lawrence North might make a play or 2 with their tremendous athletes to get Coach Mallory a Sectional Championship at home. 6A Sectional 7: Definitely the weakest Sectional in 6A, I would much rather see Valpo, Warsaw, Whiteland, Merrillville, or Lafayette Jefferson in 6A than Tech to be honest Whitelandf is the only team of those that would go to the South bracket. The Perry Meridian Falcons have been trying to play spoiler and will handle their rival Southport. Warren Central will beat Tech easily and are way too much for the Perry Meridian Falcons, The Warriors cruise to another easy sectional Championship. 6A Sectional 8: The Franklin Central Flashes at the Columbus North Bulldogs is a tough one to pick. Both teams have played very well and I like what Columbus North has been doing this year. I will pick Coach West to lead his Flashes in a close win over the Bulldogs. Center Grove will walk through Jeffersonville. Coach Moore will lead the CG Trojans to another Sectional Championship at Center Grove, the Flashes will put up a good fight but the Trojans offense will be too much for them.

Like at a wedding?

What the Hell does Dwenger have to do with my statement? Reading comprehension might be an issue here

I think Carmel might be too far gone this year with recent results, even feel Zionsville could make that one interesting in Round 1. If things go how I think they should from just mapping things out roughly, seems like the path sends Westfield back up to Crown Point this year. Really wish IHSAA would change scenarios for what determines hosting the next week, if things work out for certain teams, they could have 3 of 4 games prior to LOS home, where their Semistate opponent’s only home game might have been week before. Wishful thinking but would require real progressive thoughts of seeding or considering neutral sites by them.

I like this....it kind of gets at the REAL issue in a roundabout way. Agree....we should add the number of disabled kids to the calculation.

Not football. More like a video game.

So you want to punish kids who come from a good family?

The adjustment based on FRL could be a start. The only other thing that I'd want to look at, in addition, would be students with disabilities too that might impede them from participating in athletic activities. It might be moot as several with disabilities also tend to be part of FRL grouping, but I think that a kid who's disabled should not count against a school's athletic denominator unless there is probability of them being in the numerator too.

Again, I won't stoop to your level. Nice try though. Where did I state it was "my Top 10". I gave you the Top 10 teams for 6A listed by Calpreps nothing more nothing less not my Top 10 (see blow). I'll let you get back to your digging, your fury blinds you.

I believe two different topics at hand 1. ALL IN vs Qualification and 2. How to determine population of school/classification I find this Iowa way interesting, be wondering what results would look like after 2 years of them doing it this way

Brebeuf is 3-1 when giving up 57 points or more.

According to the EventLink app, Madison is playing at Corydon Central in week 8 next season.

Unfortunately, this happens far too frequently. Under NF rules, on a kick try (extra point) the ball is dead as soon as it is apparent that the kick has failed. Not so on a field goal attempt. But a field goal from that distance looks like a kick try, and muscle memory kicks in so you blow the whistle when the kick fails. That’s why the proper mechanic is for the crew members to all communicate with one another before the play that “it’s a field goal, the ball remains alive.” Not an excuse. Just an explanation.

Wrong color.