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Is a consolidation between schools possible with the IHSAA?

ASJCPUMA
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Irishman Grand Master

Irishman

Posted
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52 minutes ago, ASJCPUMA said:

Is it possible if one school cannot field a team and another school have low numbers of consolidating their numbers into one team?

Not sure if this has been discussed before but just wondering.

 

Nope, the IHSAA does not allowed co-ops
There is an exception for individual students based on curriculum
"Q. 12-8  If a student lives in the attendance area of Public School A, but Enrolls at Public School B (a School which offers innovative teaching methods and has no athletic programs involving an IHSAA Recognized Sport), can the student play football on School A’s football team?
A.   Yes, provided (i) Public School A accepts the student in its football program, (ii) the student, Public School A and Public School B, each inform the IHSAA of student’s participation in Public School A’s football program, (iii) there exist no apparent IHSAA rule violations and (iv) the student meets all IHSAA eligibility standards and all of Public School B’s standards. (rule 12-4)"

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Muda69 Grand Master

Muda69

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14 hours ago, Irishman said:

Nope, the IHSAA does not allowed co-ops
 

Which is stupid, frankly.  It should allow co-ops, like our neighbors to the west do, and with much success. 

 

14 hours ago, Irishman said:

There is an exception for individual students based on curriculum
"Q. 12-8  If a student lives in the attendance area of Public School A, but Enrolls at Public School B (a School which offers innovative teaching methods and has no athletic programs involving an IHSAA Recognized Sport), can the student play football on School A’s football team?

This is what allows the students at a public school like the Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humanities, which has no athletic programs at all, to play on the athletic teams at Muncie Burris.

 

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Donnie Baker Mentor

Donnie Baker

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10 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Which is stupid, frankly.  It should allow co-ops, like our neighbors to the west do, and with much success. 

 

This is what allows the students at a public school like the Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humanities, which has no athletic programs at all, to play on the athletic teams at Muncie Burris.

 

Co-ops and legal weed are 2 things Illinois got right. I swear to God they are 

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whiteshoes Rising Star

whiteshoes

Posted
Posted
On 6/28/2023 at 9:26 PM, ASJCPUMA said:

Is it possible if one school cannot field a team and another school have low numbers of consolidating their numbers into one team?

Not sure if this has been discussed before but just wondering.

 

I have never understood why it is not allowed in Indiana.    Almost all other states have coop schools in their lower divisions.    But then again, there are several things other states do that would benefit our schools here, but, after all, it is the IHSAA which is against any change in any form.    Sometimes I wonder if they even look at what other states are doing to see if something that works would benefit us.   But again, this is Indiana where progress is a dirty word.

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Bobref Grand Master

Bobref

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On 6/29/2023 at 11:46 AM, Muda69 said:

Which is stupid, frankly.  It should allow co-ops, like our neighbors to the west do, and with much success. 

My understanding is the IHSAA doesn’t want a situation like this:

Little Johnny’s School A doesn’t have a football team, so he plays on School B’s team. Then comes basketball season, and school A, with Johnny a team member, plays against School B. 

 

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Muda69 Grand Master

Muda69

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4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

My understanding is the IHSAA doesn’t want a situation like this:

Little Johnny’s School A doesn’t have a football team, so he plays on School B’s team. Then comes basketball season, and school A, with Johnny a team member, plays against School B. 

 

Ok. I don't understand the conflict in such a situation.  Two completely different sports.

 

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Muda69 Grand Master

Muda69

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

 

No, I'm not.  I honestly don't understand the dilemma regarding the situation Bobref described.

I guess I don't agree in Bobref's scenario that the football team is  "School B's team".  The idea behind a co-op is that neither school A or school B can field a football team on it's own, hence the need to cooperate.  It would be 'School A+B's team" would it not?

 

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foxbat Grand Master

foxbat

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

My understanding is the IHSAA doesn’t want a situation like this:

Little Johnny’s School A doesn’t have a football team, so he plays on School B’s team. Then comes basketball season, and school A, with Johnny a team member, plays against School B. 

 

Could the IHSAA basically say that, should schools decide to form a co-op, said co-op is an all-sports co-op?  That is, they would perform as a co-op across all sports instead of just football or just baseball?  That would address that concern, although it would also likely have most schools decide if it's all or none, they'll take none.

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Bash Riprock Veteran

Bash Riprock

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

No, I'm not.  I honestly don't understand the dilemma regarding the situation Bobref described.

I guess I don't agree in Bobref's scenario that the football team is  "School B's team".  The idea behind a co-op is that neither school A or school B can field a football team on it's own, hence the need to cooperate.  It would be 'School A+B's team" would it not?

 

I was just kidding with you.

I can see a conflicts with other sports coming into play...

Growing up in a rural part of the state before consolidation, there was only one choice if someone wanted to play football.  And that was to attend the "city" school.  Those smaller schools were fierce rivals in other sports such as hoops. I don't think it would have worked during the fall to merge a couple of those schools together to play a single sport. 

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Whiting89 Community Regular

Whiting89

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22 hours ago, Bobref said:

My understanding is the IHSAA doesn’t want a situation like this:

Little Johnny’s School A doesn’t have a football team, so he plays on School B’s team. Then comes basketball season, and school A, with Johnny a team member, plays against School B. 

 

That’s not how it works I believe

it would be highland munster coop football

then highland basketball and Munster basketball 

 

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Cheez Apprentice

Cheez

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As a former Indiana HS football coach who is now in my second year coaching in Michigan, I just thought I'd chime in and share how co-ops work in Michigan.

An example, Covert High School has 96 students. Bangor High School, with 349 students, is 12 minutes away. The two schools co-op for football, so Covert students can go and play at Bangor under the name "Bangor Vikings," and the MHSAA uses the combined enrollment of 445 for classification purposes. In every other sport, Covert and Bangor each field their own separate teams - they opened their basketball seasons against each other in 2022-23.

I think the main reason the IHSAA doesn't allow (or, rather, hasn't addressed the idea of co-ops) is simply because the amount of small schools who would be impacted by co-ops is fairly small. Michigan schools are organized much differently, so there are nearly 200 high schools throughout the State - public and private - with enrollments below 200 students. By comparison, a quick peek at the IHSAA member list shows that there are less than 40 high schools in the whole State of Indiana that have an enrollment below 200. Here's the MHSAA list of approved co-op programs for 2022-23 - It's 28 pages long (each school is listed twice, so 14 pages of co-op teams): https://www.mhsaa.com/sites/default/files/Enrollment and Classification/2223hscoop.PDF

To be fair a quick glance at the approved co-op teams also shows that a large number of these co-op football programs also happen to play 8-man so it's fair to say that the two schools are in a position that, without the co-op, *neither* team would be able to field an 8-man program. 

Here's a link from the MHSAA explaining the co-op process: https://my.mhsaa.com/portals/0/documents/AD Forms/srcoop.pdf

 

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Bobref Grand Master

Bobref

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1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

That’s not how it works I believe

it would be highland munster coop football

then highland basketball and Munster basketball 

 

Same difference. The IHSAA wants to avoid divided loyalties.

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oldtimeqb Experienced

oldtimeqb

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Cheez said:

An example, Covert High School has 96 students. Bangor High School, with 349 students, is 12 minutes away. The two schools co-op for football, so Covert students can go and play at Bangor under the name "Bangor Vikings," and the MHSAA uses the combined enrollment of 445 for classification purposes. In every other sport, Covert and Bangor each field their own separate teams - they opened their basketball seasons against each other in 2022-23.

 

Thanks for the input. I appreciate the perspective.

And saying ‘Well, those 96 kids at Covert shouldn’t get a chance to play football because they will play against Bangor in basketball’ is a pretty ridiculous viewpoint. Glad for them MHSAA doesn’t take that stance. But that is just me.

Edited by oldtimeqb
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JustRules Community Regular

JustRules

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I'm from one of the many states that uses co-ops for the small schools and they vary from sport to sport. The thought of potential conflict never crosses anyone's minds. Ultimately high school sports are about participation with a good dose of competition. Allowing the co-ops provides more opportunities for some students to participate.

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Donnie Baker Mentor

Donnie Baker

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2 hours ago, JustRules said:

I'm from one of the many states that uses co-ops for the small schools and they vary from sport to sport. The thought of potential conflict never crosses anyone's minds. Ultimately high school sports are about participation with a good dose of competition. Allowing the co-ops provides more opportunities for some students to participate.

Sometimes the adults forget who high school sports are really for. I swear to God they do 

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