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I don't think Allen is a phony. I think his antics are genuine but doesn't really fit the demeanor for a P5 coach. That stuff you see PJ Fleck do...I believe that's manufactured. If anything Allen is corny but I at least think he's authentic. I could see Wilson being a douche. He's an ego-maniac. Most head coaches are. Dabo, Saban, Belichek. Most those guys come off a douchey.

Just a quick synopsis as I remember it--the IHSAA was sued by South Bend St Joseph's players because they had failed to make the tournament after going unbeaten two straight regular seasons during the point system qualifier. St Joe lost their case, but the IHSAA went to the cluster system to avoid further litigation from other unbeaten teams. Instead, Catholic Schools in Marion County sued over discrimination due to their cluster grouping, since the IHSAA put five Catholic schools in the same AA sectional (Ritter, Brebeuf, Scecina, Chatard, Cathedral), IHSAA won that lawsuit also, but the cluster was widely despised after year one's results. (Looked this up)--eight 9-1 teams didn't make the playoffs the first cluster year, a dozen 8-2 teams were left out also. Scheduling was a mess, consequently big gates were lost, and conferences were wrecked. Amzie Miller at New Prairie hated the cluster, and was the driving force behind the all-in playoff. The schools overwhelmingly voted in favor of the all-in. The school vote in Northwest Indiana's District 1 was 40-0 in favor of the all-in playoff. The state's other four district's votes were not unanimous, but overwhelmingly in favor also.

You’re absolutely right. Nothing bad that you can really say about either team. I was just kind of surprised the thread hadn’t generated a little more discussion. Five years ago it seemed like there were 10 pages at this point in the week. In a way, I think both teams have exceeded expectations. You’re right, I really thought after the Reitz and Mater Dei games that Lincoln wood finish roughly 6-3 or 5-4 at worst. 4-5 certainly not a reflection of their season. And I know I’ve seen a few Gibson Southern folk on here saying they did not expect to be undefeated. That’s a testament to the players for not allowing a hangover season and to the standard that Coach Hart has established.

That's as low as I have ever seen anyone go on here. You my friend are a scoundrel.

Well..it’s Thursday… I wasn’t going to resort to this but the lack of insults being thrown to this point has left me no choice! Bobe’s > Sandy’s Any day of the week.

Irish have Lawrence Central to worry about first, and to be honest if they have another 100+ yards penalties the rematch prob won't happen. I do have faith that it will!

Maybe he just doesn't want some crazy qualifying format. Maybe you should find out why they went to the all in after the Colts came to Indiana in 1984. I think most people in Indiana like the all in and don't want anything changed. But, that didn't stop the Ihsaa from going to class basketball in 1997 when most people didn't want that. I am sorry you think that Indiana has done it all wrong for the past 37 years. Yeah, I know if Indiana does what you want things will be much better and the games will mean so much more.

Snider waxed Homestead and Dwenger whereas North Side did not. That's probably the reason for Snider's higher Sagarin rating. The Legends take their game to a whole new level when playing Snider. I would argue that Snider is North Side's number one rival being bordering neighborhoods. No matter the records, when these two play, either Snider puts their best foot forward or they lose.............that simple.

I know guys who played for Allen in high school and were staffers under Allen when he first became head coach at IU. He does that stuff in practice. That isn't for show. He's genuine in that regard. I think it gets tiresome and when things aren't going well it's tough to stomach in the locker room. But it's real, it's not for show.

He's a helluva defensive coach. I wish we could go back into an alternative universe where IU had never fired Kevin Wilson (and while I've heard the circumstances, it seems very fishy) and had KW at HC and CTA as DC. They were tremendous in their one year together.

While I think it would be great to have a Playoff instead of a Tournament, I am not disappointed with the All in tournament at all. I think it could be improved upon but there are aspects I enjoy about the all in tournament. I care for it when it is mentioned using Sagarin when it comes to this discussion because Sagarin wouldn't likely be used (it doesn't take into account out of state games which several teams do play against). I do think Calpreps is very useful for it. I will give a good example of the aspect I do like about the all in tournament. In 2017 Mooresville was 1-8 at the end of the season. They absolutely would not have made the playoffs using Calpreps they were ranked 34 out of 64 teams in the final rankings (likely were lower prior to the tournament). Coming into sectionals they beat Connersville and New Castle making it to the Sectional Championship and losing to Mid-State Conference foe Greenwood (who was ranked 6th in Calpreps). It wasn't a cinderella story of a team making it to the State Finals. What it "did" do though was they won a couple games building some confidence which propelled them to going 8-1 the next season (lone loss was to Decatur Central), winning Sectionals and losing a tight close game in Regionals to Marion 19-13. Any of the 3 teams Mooresville, Marion, or Evansville Central that year could have been in the 4A State Championship against FW Dwenger. It ended up being Ev Central after they beat Marion in Evansville (still think that has to be the longest travel in IHSAA tournament for Semi-State ever). Ev Central lost to FW Dwnger in 4 OT's. I don't look at it as it should be All In Format because of the Cinderella story. I look at it as getting in and getting that extra game maybe two or three with a win or two; can really propel a team for the next season. That is the aspect I like about the All In Tournament vs a Playoff format. Don't get me wrong there are benefits to a Playoff format too.

Thanks! I did this last year for Memorial’s Sectional, Regional, Semi-State games and decided to step it a notch higher this year. I do plan on doing the S24 Semifinal games too

Some super talented/loaded teams in this class that should make for an interesting next few weeks. The Favorites: (Sorted alphabetically.) New Palestine - After a dominating stretch followed by a quick hiatus, Kyle Ralph's Dragons are back with a vengeance and put the state on notice immediately by disposing of the defending 5A state runners-up in Westfield before coasting through conference play. That's the question for me. Can the Dragons flip the switch back on and recreate that magic as the teams get tougher? Was never a problem in the past and I don't think it will be this time around either. Roncalli - Many anointed the 4A title a closed discussion back in early September as New Pal looked dominant. However, the Royals have narrowed the gap significantly and are battle tested with some great wins on their resume. They'll have a couple of tests in the sectional round and if they make it to Thanksgiving weekend, will have deserved it as their path is absolutely brutal. The Contenders: (Sorted alphabetically.) East Central - Any other year, I feel like the Trojans belong in the above category and perhaps they still do. EC beat a solid Lawreneburg unit in week 1, coasted through an easy conference schedule and they played Roncalli right down to the wire in week 9. They have the benefit of a slightly easier sectional compared to Roncalli though a Martinsville team with some impressive wins also could make them sweat. Evansville Reitz - Its easy for a central Indy guy like myself to forget about the Pocket City and some have been critical of Reitz's omission from the my weekly rankings. The SIAC was a cluster of good teams this year and Reitz seems to be the best of the bunch. Are they great? We will find out. Jasper and Memorial will not go down quietly. The Sleepers: (Sorted alphabetically.) Brebeuf Jesuit - A team much better than its record indicates as they play a daunting schedule. Actually led Roncalli early in their contest before falling by 17. Columbia City - Another team, like Fort Wayne North in 5A that few are talking about. The Eagles quietly took care of business after an early season blemish. Evansville Memorial - As mentioned, a solid SIAC unit that won 6 of its last 7 after starting 0-2. They'll be ready. Hobart - Never count out the Brickies. Another team that played a tough schedule in losing to two DAC teams early before winning 6 of their last 7. Jasper - The Wildcats were in the thick of the SIAC race all season long and have enough to make either Memorial or Reitz earn the sectional title. Kokomo - The Wildcats played a ho hum schedule and lost to the best team on it (Lafayette Jeff) albeit by a small margin. They are dangerous. Mooresville - One of the best QBs in the state that few are talking about. Sectional is loaded. New Prairie - Only blemish is to a 6A unit in Penn. NorthWood - Most folks' favorite to come out of the north. Temp's Picks: Sectional Champions: Hobart NorthWood Columbia City Kokomo Roncalli New Palestine East Central Evansville Reitz Regional Champions: NorthWood Kokomo New Palestine East Central Semi-State Champions: NorthWood New Palestine State Champions: New Palestine What say you?

Not as intriguing as 6A (never thought I would say that after Cathedral got bumped up) but here we are. The Favorites: (Sorted alphabetically.) Fort Wayne Snider - Like I stated in the 6A thread, Indiana high school football is simply better when a program like Snider is good. Due to the closed SAC schedule, we honestly don't know "how good" because we don't have a measuring stick of many common opponents. Sagarin loves the Pantthers who held off a good North Side team in week 1 before suffering their only loss a week later to 6A contender Carroll. Whiteland - Other than one hiccup, Whiteland has emerged as the best 5A program in central Indiana. They won a very competitive and improving Mid-State Conference and can breathe a sigh of relief not having to see Cathedral anywhere in the 5A bracket. They did have one, head scratching hiccup, a 14 point loss to a decent Martinsville unit but the Warriors won every other contest by double figures against a top 25 schedule. The Contenders: (Sorted alphabetically.) Bloomington South - The Panthers suffered an early season loss to that same Martinsville team mentioned above but was perfect the rest of the way. They get a bit of a breather in the sectional rounds and should also be heavily favored in the regional. Merrillville - The Warren Central of class 5A. You never know what you are getting with the Pirates as they have looked as good as anyone in the class and then pedestrian at other times. Talent is definitely not an issue but Merrillville needs to flip the switch after a late season thud at Chesterton. The Pirates have been to the doorstep at the 6A level before so they should not be intimidated by anyone they see in the bracket. The Sleepers: (Sorted alphabetically.) Chesterton - Mentioned above that their 25 point drubbing of Merrillville last week turned some heads. They will likely have a coin flip game with conference rival Valpo and then Merrillville should be waiting in the regional should they survive that. Fort Wayne North - Only losses are to Snider and Carroll and both by one possession. Uber talented skill position players and I feel like they may be the best team in 5A that no one talks about. Franklin - Mentioned the competitive Mid-State Conference as possibly the state's most improved and the Grizzly Cubs were right in the thick of it. They likely get Whiteland at home in a contest they were blanked in during the regular season. Could be the biggest game in program history if the bracket falls how I expect it to. Harrison (West Lafayette) - Another program on the rise whose only loss was in week 1 against a great 3A squad in West Lafayette. Defeated rival Jeff who is a solid 6A unit before coasting home. Mishawaka - The Cavemen also have one blemish on their resume, to most folks' 4A north favorite NorthWood. Mishawaka should sneak by Concord before the best 5A team from Fort Wayne awaits in the regional. Valparaiso - A young team written off by some early hung around and was competitive in the DAC. They'll need to defeat two DAC rivals to stay alive midway through the month. Temp's Picks: Sectional Champs: Merrillville Chesterton Mishawaka Fort Wayne North Harrison (West Lafayette) Whiteland Bloomington South Castle Regional Champs: Merrillville Fort Wayne North Whiteland Bloomington South Semi-State Champs: Fort Wayne North Whiteland State Champion: Whiteland

State Law.

They were in 1A in the 80’s along with HSE and Lawrenceburg.

This is a loose ball foul by R, so it’s previous spot enforcement. Re-kick from the +45 or decline the penalty and R takes the ball at the out of bounds spot.

6 more pages of deja vu all over again! I guess it's just fun for some of you. No harm, no change.

Grown ass men telling high school boys they can’t play in the tournament because you don’t like it. Awesome. I gotta go

For the record. No! The best of the Pac are year in year out as good as the best in the SIAC.

Other than "other people do it".....what is the true benefit for the kids? the Coaches? I have asked this several time and get nothing in return. I get how you feel as a fan. But if we polled the players and coaches, how do you think they would respond? I experienced the old playoff qualifying system. It was really, really bad. I get that a new qualifier would be an improvement over that system. (I hope) It is true professional and college sports have qualifiers for the post-season....but ever notice how over the years, they keep expanding the playoff field?? Obviously, they continue to see the need to improvement and inclusion. BTW, Maryland is also now heavily considering an all-in football playoff system....maybe they benchmarked and like what the Indiana and Missouri systems offered their kids and coaches.....

The all-in must not be that bad because high school football is more popular in Indiana than ever before. Basketball is no longer king in Indiana because they went to class basketball. Maybe Indiana should have went to the all-in starting in 1973 and none of that would have happened. Were you living in Indiana in 1985?

It was worse than that. Long story short, after two straight undefeated seasons in which they failed to qualify for the playoffs, some parents from South Bend St. Joe filed a lawsuit against the IHSAA. The all in format was a direct response to the IHSAA’s heightened sensitivity on the subject of deciding who qualifies for the playoffs. The idea being if everything is more or less random, there are no decisions to be critiqued.

If players of opposing teams simultaneously possess the ball, it becomes dead at that point. If the ball was loose due to a forward or backward pass, or a fumble, it would belong to the passing or fumbling team. If the ball was loose because of a kick, it would belong to the receiving team.

Admittedly I have read zero of this thread. The IHSAA hangs their hat on an all in blind draw format. Carry on.

As well as all other professional and amateur sports leagues. You know, at some point when you insist that you’re right when everyone else in the world has looked at an issue and come out on the other side, you’ve got to look in the mirror. And anyone who thinks that Indiana came up with the all in format because they made a careful evaluation and decided that was what was best for Indiana football, knows nothing of the history of the tournament.

If the Ohio experience is any guide, it shows there are a number of different ways to skin that cat. You can try to schedule bad big schools, which gives you good 1st level points when you beat them, but no 2nd level points when they don’t beat anybody. Or you can schedule good smaller schools, receiving fewer 1st level points but more 2nd level points. There are other ways that combine different strategies. The one thing that’s abundantly clear is that a strategy of trying to load up your schedule with weak sisters so you put together a gaudy W-L record doesn’t often work.

I love that the polarity of sectional 30 has created a situation where despite having GS/VL/Owen Valley….the likes of princeton and others has made it effectively the lowest ranked 3A sectional

FW North is not winning the sectional, let alone semi state. I agree with a TON of talent in the skill positions, but up front they are susceptible. I'll take Snider by 10 IF they can get past Dwenger again. Always a tough game.

I can see that...and that did happen under the old qualifying format many years ago. But changing schedules isn't easy for some....certain regions are currently limited to playing options. Travelling large distances may not be an option. And if they can find different opponents, it may be to the detriment of local rivalries. The latter is something I personally experienced.

Some conferences, like the Duneland, that have all 5A and 6A schools may stay relatively intact. Others, like the SAC, that have members spread out over 3 or more classes, probably won’t. And I agree that the relative scarcity of big schools in Southern Indiana will create scheduling challenges for them.

Would love to see North Side make a run, but I'm worried that even if they get past Snider in sectional, they don't have the discipline and structure to make a deep run. Where as Snider may not have as much flashy talent as North, I think they have the pieces to go all the way.

I am affronted, sir. And, lest you forget, we are all in Kentucky according to everyone north of I-70.

GS won’t lose to the Alice’s. I’d say it’s Titans -15

419 yard and 5tds doesn’t even begin to explain what he did to the GS defense that night. kid did the defense so bad that it literally went viral. 99 yard td….runs where he broke 6+ tackles on his way for a TD….there was one where he split between two defenders, put the ball behind his back and into his other hand like a basketball move off the dribble…the two GS players ran into each other…and he galloped for another TD. There is a video out there where he has like 2 highlights from this one game on it. I still don’t understand how GS won that game other than they had Brady Allen who was just able to go basically TD for TD with mockobee. As for the recruiting part. I’m really not sure. I recall though that his track accomplishments at state were his senior year…which april/may after signing day in February as a senior…pretty tough to do anything with that. also his big season was the 2020 season with covid so that definitely hurt

If the scuttlebutt is true, then VL has about as much of a chance of beating GS on Friday as PC does beating MD.

I think "could pull off the upset" insinuates a close game. Maybe we don't have the same understanding of the English language. Cats by a running clock in the 3rd. Maybe you should throw out a score prediction Nostradamus.

In some sense….I think Southridge might the #2 team in 3A south. Should Gibson Southern slip up, I think they have a real chance of making it to LOS. i don’t really see anyone who is better in their sectional…or their regional. a semi state game would likely be against Tri West, Webo, Owen Valley, Vincennes Lincoln, Or Gibson Southern….and I’ll take Southridge over any of those except Gibson Southern

I watched this one in '73. I was a Senior

Yes, great write up Temp. You provide good content to this forum.

you can have the field, I will take the 59ers

The Vikings could easily be better than PC, I just gave PC the nod because they are 8-1…but NP is 7-2 with losses only to linton and Southridge I believe. im bound to stir the pot a bit if MD and NP play each other lol yeah yeah yeah I get it. im still not picking a stinky SIAC team. I’m here to burn bridges 😘

For you - Bobref.....

Just curious, is this an argument to qualify for the tournament or just for it to be seeded? There seems to be a bit of both sentiments in the comments. I think seeding is probably a good idea, but all teams should still participate. Keep in mind several conferences that cover 3 different classes, a 1A school might be getting beat up by bigger schools and then make a run in the tournament.

It’s a lot like porn, I have a hard time defining it, but I know it when I see it. Bob’s sliding scale is a great analogy, show me you’re not trying to make the “big hit highlight reel”.