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On 12/9/2020 at 2:02 PM, Dolts said:

Seeger's last cycle in 1A they were South, but their most recent cycle in 2A they were North.  I would think, with Sectional 45 not losing any teams, Seeger would be a team that would go north...and likely make some noise

Seeger was in 2A south the last 2 years.

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Somehow Illinois not only determines who qualifies for the playoffs, but they also divide the 256 teams into 8 classes and seed the teams.... all in one weekend.  Yet Indiana can't figure out how to c

I am becoming more and more intrigued with 8 man football.  It would allow schools, such as those mentioned above, to field a team and allow some smaller 1A programs a chance to be more competitive. 

Im rooting for the 140 Mile 3 hour trip from South Put to South Central! At least 1 school will gain an hour with time change on 1 of their trips! Thank you for the hard work and doing this! 

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2 hours ago, 1st_and_10 said:

Seeger was in 2A south the last 2 years.

You are correct, I was thinking they were North for some reason.

But if Sectional 45 doesn't bump any teams up, Seeger could go North.  They should be contenders no matter what side of the bracket they are on though

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If those 3A numbers are correct I've got it this way.  Tri-West and Danville would both go north and could potentially be separated (Danville stays south).  Heritage Hills is odd man out and has to go East.  South Bend area splits half to region half to the Fort.

REGION KOKOMO FORT WAYNE INDY NW
       
Hanover Central Alexandria Bellmont Hamilton Heights
Calumet Knox Heritage Guerin Catholic
Griffith Mississinewa Fort Wayne Concordia Western Boone
Benton Central Peru Garrett North Montgomery
South Bend Washington Maconaquah Woodlan Twin Lakes
Jimtown Northwestern West Noble Crawfordsville
Mishawaka Marian Tippecanoe Valley Lakeland Danville
Glenn Yorktown Fairfield Tri-West
       
       
INDY SW EVANSVILLE LOUISVILLE CINCY
       
Indian Creek Washington Scottsburg Franklin County
Brown County Gibson Southern Madison South Dearborn
South Vermillion Mt. Vernon (Posey) Charlestown Batesville
Speedway Evansville Bosse Corydon Greensburg
Monrovia Vincennes North Harrison Lawrenceburg  
West Vigo Princeton Salem Rushville
Edgewood Pike Central Heritage Hills Indianapolis Manual
Owen Valley Southridge   Indianapolis Washington
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1 hour ago, superjay said:

If those 3A numbers are correct I've got it this way.  Tri-West and Danville would both go north and could potentially be separated (Danville stays south).  Heritage Hills is odd man out and has to go East.  South Bend area splits half to region half to the Fort.

REGION KOKOMO FORT WAYNE INDY NW
       
Hanover Central Alexandria Bellmont Hamilton Heights
Calumet Knox Heritage Guerin Catholic
Griffith Mississinewa Fort Wayne Concordia Western Boone
Benton Central Peru Garrett North Montgomery
South Bend Washington Maconaquah Woodlan Twin Lakes
Jimtown Northwestern West Noble Crawfordsville
Mishawaka Marian Tippecanoe Valley Lakeland Danville
Glenn Yorktown Fairfield Tri-West
       
       
INDY SW EVANSVILLE LOUISVILLE CINCY
       
Indian Creek Washington Scottsburg Franklin County
Brown County Gibson Southern Madison South Dearborn
South Vermillion Mt. Vernon (Posey) Charlestown Batesville
Speedway Evansville Bosse Corydon Greensburg
Monrovia Vincennes North Harrison Lawrenceburg  
West Vigo Princeton Salem Rushville
Edgewood Pike Central Heritage Hills Indianapolis Manual
Owen Valley Southridge   Indianapolis Washington

Where's West Lafayette?  I thought Manual looked like 2A from the numbers presented earlier.

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2 hours ago, superjay said:

If those 3A numbers are correct I've got it this way.  Tri-West and Danville would both go north and could potentially be separated (Danville stays south).  Heritage Hills is odd man out and has to go East.  South Bend area splits half to region half to the Fort.

REGION KOKOMO FORT WAYNE INDY NW
       
Hanover Central Alexandria Bellmont Hamilton Heights
Calumet Knox Heritage Guerin Catholic
Griffith Mississinewa Fort Wayne Concordia Western Boone
Benton Central Peru Garrett North Montgomery
South Bend Washington Maconaquah Woodlan Twin Lakes
Jimtown Northwestern West Noble Crawfordsville
Mishawaka Marian Tippecanoe Valley Lakeland Danville
Glenn Yorktown Fairfield Tri-West
       
       
INDY SW EVANSVILLE LOUISVILLE CINCY
       
Indian Creek Washington Scottsburg Franklin County
Brown County Gibson Southern Madison South Dearborn
South Vermillion Mt. Vernon (Posey) Charlestown Batesville
Speedway Evansville Bosse Corydon Greensburg
Monrovia Vincennes North Harrison Lawrenceburg  
West Vigo Princeton Salem Rushville
Edgewood Pike Central Heritage Hills Indianapolis Manual
Owen Valley Southridge   Indianapolis Washington

We've been down this road multiple times on this thread. A # of different ways it can be broken down - will just be whatever logic/sense the IHSAA wants to come up with: 

 

  On 12/3/2020 at 10:45 AM, oldtimeqb said:

I like the thinking. But as much as I try, I think HH or SR go to 31, similar to the alignments in 2015 and 16.

29 - Put in Indian Creek for VL

30 - Edgewood for IC

31 - HH or SR for Edgewood - Probably HH

32 - VL added 

IF the IHSAA decided to go "that route", meaning back to 15 and 16, I think it's more likely it's broken down this way - I think it makes more sense time-zone wise.

31 (eastern time zone teams) - Corydon, Salem, Charleston, Scottsburg, Rushville, Brown County, North Harrison, Southridge

32 (central time zone) - Mt. Vernon, Bosse, Vincennes Lincoln, Gibson Southern, Princeton, H.H., Washington, Pike Central

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More examples of possibilities. Each has advantages/disadvantages - I think what EVERYONE in 3A will agree though is that Sectional 30 needed changed

  On 11/29/2020 at 11:21 PM, XStar said:

I took a shot at 3A with HoopsCoach's classifications:

25 - Calumet, Hanover Central, Hammond Clark, Griffith, Knox, Benton Central, Twin Lakes, West Lafayette

26 - Mishawaka Marian, SB Washington, John Glenn, Jimtown, Fairfield, Tippecanoe Valley, Peru, Maconaquah

27 - (only put 7 in this one) West Noble, Garrett, Lakeland, Woodlan, FW Concordia, Heritage, Bellmont

28 - Western Boone, North Montgomery, Crawfordsville, Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Speedway, South Vermillion, Tri-West

29 - Danville, Monrovia, Indy Washington, Washington, Owen Valley, Indian Creek, Brown County, Edgewood

30 - Mississinewa, Alexandria, Northwestern, Yorktown, Rushville, Batesville, Greensburg, Franklin County

31 - Salem, North Harrison, Corydon Central, Madison, South Dearborn, Scottsburg, Charlestown, Lawrenceburg

32 - Mt Vernon, Evansville Bosse, Gibson Southern, Pike Central, Southridge, Heritage Hills, Vincennes Lincoln, Princeton

 

I like this alignment.  Sectional 25 had a hole in it and West Lafayette makes more geographic sense than anyone else to fill it I think with Benton Central and Twin Lakes already in it as well.  I put Mississinewa in Sectional 30 rather than 27 partially because they fit in geographically with schools like Alexandria and Northwestern and I think that program could beef up that sectional a little.  Sectional 28 looks a little different with Chatard moving up.  I put Western Boone in their spot and while I moved West Lafayette to 25, I shifted Tri-West from 29 to 28 so it still looks plenty tough to me.

As for balance, I count 11 teams in the "new" 3A that finished in the top 100 in Sagarin in 2020.  All 8 sectionals has at least one and only one (Sectional 28) has 3.  I'd love to move one of those 3 to a different sectional but can't figure out a way to do it that makes sense.  I think the teams in 31 and 32 pretty much have to be where they are based on geography but that's just from me looking at a map.  That's the part of the state I'm least familiar with.  

Any thoughts?  Complaints?  

Expand  

Thought about starting a separate thread for Southern 3A sectional alignment possibilities ...but this could/would serve the same purpose. 

Don't hate what you have down here - but I think it could be improved. (I don't believe you can but Missinneswea and Alexandia in the SOUTHERN sectionals....also, believe you left off some teams)Here is what I've come up with and reasoning with it.

Sectional 29 (we'll call this the "Indy Sectional") - Danville, WeBo, Tri-West, Ritter, Indian Creek, Indy Washington, Manual, and Guerin Catholic

Sectional 30 (HAD to be fixed. We'll call this the "come on up Highway 41 Sectional) - West Vigo, Washington, Princeton, Gibson Southern, Vincennes Lincoln, Edgewood, Greencastle, and Brown County 

Sectional 31 (We'll call this Eastern Indiana) - Franklin County, Lawrenceburg, North Harrison, Batesville, Charleston, Scottsburg, Owen Valley, and Rushville. *Not sure about the competitive balance here..but I think it's better than the ol Sectional 30...

Sectional 32 (What's left in Southern Indiana) - Corydon, Salem, Pike Central, Southridge, Heritage Hills, Bosse, Mt. Vernon 

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Last one (I think this one makes the most sense from the Southern half of the State's perspective?) - but not sure where that leaves everyone else

  On 11/30/2020 at 3:06 PM, Titan32 said:

If they want to kinda stick with the theme of the last realignment...you might be onto something here.  But if they want to make it more like before....not so much.

Ahh you mean the ol East/West of Southern Indiana sectional alignments?? I tried to run that one through as well (Basically splitting up 31 and 32 between "Evansville" area (32) and "other" Southern Indiana, mostly eastern (31) ...but without Sullivan and/or Memorial and it's looking like Brownstown - it was a little tougher to make work. It would look something like:

31 (eastern time zone teams) - Corydon, Salem, Charleston, Scottsburg, Rushville, Brown County, North Harrison, Southridge

32 (central time zone) - Mt. Vernon, Bosse, Vincennes Lincoln, Gibson Southern, Princeton, H.H., Washington, Pike Central

Not sure I love this set-up, but you are right, it is another way they could go...? 

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19 hours ago, jets said:

Last one (I think this one makes the most sense from the Southern half of the State's perspective?) - but not sure where that leaves everyone else

  On 11/30/2020 at 3:06 PM, Titan32 said:

If they want to kinda stick with the theme of the last realignment...you might be onto something here.  But if they want to make it more like before....not so much.

Ahh you mean the ol East/West of Southern Indiana sectional alignments?? I tried to run that one through as well (Basically splitting up 31 and 32 between "Evansville" area (32) and "other" Southern Indiana, mostly eastern (31) ...but without Sullivan and/or Memorial and it's looking like Brownstown - it was a little tougher to make work. It would look something like:

31 (eastern time zone teams) - Corydon, Salem, Charleston, Scottsburg, Rushville, Brown County, North Harrison, Southridge

32 (central time zone) - Mt. Vernon, Bosse, Vincennes Lincoln, Gibson Southern, Princeton, H.H., Washington, Pike Central

Not sure I love this set-up, but you are right, it is another way they could go...? 

I'm more partial to the old way like this...but it would be a quick departure to move away from the newer layout already.

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22 hours ago, superjay said:

If those 3A numbers are correct I've got it this way.  Tri-West and Danville would both go north and could potentially be separated (Danville stays south).  Heritage Hills is odd man out and has to go East.  South Bend area splits half to region half to the Fort.

REGION KOKOMO FORT WAYNE INDY NW
       
Hanover Central Alexandria Bellmont Hamilton Heights
Calumet Knox Heritage Guerin Catholic
Griffith Mississinewa Fort Wayne Concordia Western Boone
Benton Central Peru Garrett North Montgomery
South Bend Washington Maconaquah Woodlan Twin Lakes
Jimtown Northwestern West Noble Crawfordsville
Mishawaka Marian Tippecanoe Valley Lakeland Danville
Glenn Yorktown Fairfield Tri-West
       
       
INDY SW EVANSVILLE LOUISVILLE CINCY
       
Indian Creek Washington Scottsburg Franklin County
Brown County Gibson Southern Madison South Dearborn
South Vermillion Mt. Vernon (Posey) Charlestown Batesville
Speedway Evansville Bosse Corydon Greensburg
Monrovia Vincennes North Harrison Lawrenceburg  
West Vigo Princeton Salem Rushville
Edgewood Pike Central Heritage Hills Indianapolis Manual
Owen Valley Southridge   Indianapolis Washington

Based on these being the teams in 3A I see no problem with this alignment.

Will there be 63 teams (It looks like you only have 7 in SE Indiana/Louisville/Sectional 31.)

I also wouldn't mind a re-numbering of sorts. Using your example, make the Indy SW sectional 31 and Louisville 30.  That way you could see a different matchup at regional. Using 2020 alignments it would have been Sullivan vs. Southridge and Danville vs Lawrenceburg for regional.  

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21 hours ago, XStar said:

Where's West Lafayette?  I thought Manual looked like 2A from the numbers presented earlier.

I thought that West Lafayette, like Brebeuf was "in danger" of growing into 4A.  With Chatard moving up and Brebeuf probably going up, it would seem like the IHSAA, just based on tradition, would move Guerin and West Lafayette up to 4A on principal and put them in the same sectional ... the Sectional of Death would move to 4A.

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On 12/16/2020 at 1:40 PM, XStar said:

Where's West Lafayette?  I thought Manual looked like 2A from the numbers presented earlier.

I was was going solely by the numbers given at the start of this topic.  Any addition to the north would most likely cause a Danville move to the south and a 2nd northern team would cause Tri-West to move to the South.  TW has only been in north for 91 & 92 seasons.  Went south every other time.  It will be fun to figure it all out when the numbers are released.  One problem is we won’t have a TW guy on the committee like last time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/about ihsaa/minutes/2020-21/121720.pdf

 

Quote

 Commissioner Paul Neidig addressed questions about collecting school enrollment numbers from the Indiana Department of Education for purposes of the next realignment. No timeline has been set to announce the new information. Some have expressed concern about whether this year’s figures will accurately depict a school’s enrollment given the pandemic’s effect. Commissioner Emeritus Blake Ress will continue to assist the staff with this effor

 

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With the Rona pandemic for the past year and half, I just don't see how one can accurately report enrollments. Is the number how many butts are actually in seats? That obviously changes from one day to the next...

What about those students who have been a part of your school, but choose virtual for the year because of concerns? 

What about those who were in-person, but at semester decided to go the virtual route because of rising case numbers?? Or vice-versa?? 

Seems like a jumbled mess to me....

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I might be missing something but if a kid is enrolled in your school for any type of learning (in the seats or virtual)....shouldn't they be counted?  I know the state has said early on that school corporations had the option of allowing virtual kids to participate in extracurriculars.  Therefore, I say count them all just like you always would.

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2 hours ago, jets said:

With the Rona pandemic for the past year and half, I just don't see how one can accurately report enrollments. Is the number how many butts are actually in seats? That obviously changes from one day to the next...

What about those students who have been a part of your school, but choose virtual for the year because of concerns? 

What about those who were in-person, but at semester decided to go the virtual route because of rising case numbers?? Or vice-versa?? 

Seems like a jumbled mess to me....

My school is down, not sure how many, but down.  We let kids who are virtual or a mixture participate in extracurricular.  

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2 hours ago, jets said:

With the Rona pandemic for the past year and half, I just don't see how one can accurately report enrollments. Is the number how many butts are actually in seats? That obviously changes from one day to the next...

What about those students who have been a part of your school, but choose virtual for the year because of concerns? 

What about those who were in-person, but at semester decided to go the virtual route because of rising case numbers?? Or vice-versa?? 

Seems like a jumbled mess to me....

Virtual students are still students at your school. They still count in terms of enrollment and receive funding. 

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4 hours ago, Titan32 said:

I might be missing something but if a kid is enrolled in your school for any type of learning (in the seats or virtual)....shouldn't they be counted?  I know the state has said early on that school corporations had the option of allowing virtual kids to participate in extracurriculars.  Therefore, I say count them all just like you always would.

 

2 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Virtual students are still students at your school. They still count in terms of enrollment and receive funding. 

This is where a lot of individuals get confused and why I think counting enrollments is nearly an impossible feat this year. 

Students had an option to choose “virtual schooling” this year provided by the State. They are NOT considered enrolled in any County school.

However I had a few students at semester drop out of Virtual because it was “way hard” (their words) 

But- I also had a few join for fear of numbers going up

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16 hours ago, jets said:

With the Rona pandemic for the past year and half, I just don't see how one can accurately report enrollments. Is the number how many butts are actually in seats? That obviously changes from one day to the next...

What about those students who have been a part of your school, but choose virtual for the year because of concerns? 

What about those who were in-person, but at semester decided to go the virtual route because of rising case numbers?? Or vice-versa?? 

Seems like a jumbled mess to me....

18 months?  Last I checked, our country and subsequently the world, shut down on Friday, 3/13/20.  Roughly 10 months ago. 

You know something we don’t know, 😂?

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The issue isn't do you count virtual students in your enrollment....the answer is yes BTW, the issue is many families (in the thousands) didn't send their kid to any school this year in any form.   This occurred in higher rates in urban and very rural areas with lack of access to internet can be an issue.  It'll be interesting to see how the IHSAA handles this.  

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20 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

The issue isn't do you count virtual students in your enrollment....the answer is yes BTW, the issue is many families (in the thousands) didn't send their kid to any school this year in any form.   This occurred in higher rates in urban and very rural areas with lack of access to internet can be an issue.  It'll be interesting to see how the IHSAA handles this.  

But wouldn't those kids HAVE to be enrolled in some school (somewhere)?  

My assumption is that regardless if they went in person every day, did full remote, or did a hybrid they were enrolled in some school corporation.

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12 hours ago, jets said:

 

This is where a lot of individuals get confused and why I think counting enrollments is nearly an impossible feat this year. 

Students had an option to choose “virtual schooling” this year provided by the State. They are NOT considered enrolled in any County school.

However I had a few students at semester drop out of Virtual because it was “way hard” (their words) 

But- I also had a few join for fear of numbers going up

So are you saying that "virtual schooling" provided by the state is something different than where schools did class room cameras and google meet to provide their own "virtual learning option"?  Or maybe nobody did that and that setup was only used in hybrid situations.

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I haven't read through this whole thread, but part of the thing that will skew enrollment numbers for some schools are the availability of online schools that are not affiliated with their districts. One example is K12, an online school provider. If students attend this school, they are not enrolled in their home school district. K12 must consult with the home school district in regards to special education accommodations, but those students are K12 students. Our district has lost a fair number of other students to other online schools, or even to home school. When they enroll in those schools, they are unenrolled in our district. I would imagine many districts have encountered this and will see an enrollment decrease as a result. 

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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

So are you saying that "virtual schooling" provided by the state is something different than where schools did class room cameras and google meet to provide their own "virtual learning option"?  Or maybe nobody did that and that setup was only used in hybrid situations.

EXACTLY -there is a BIG difference and I don't think many people understand. 

We have "virtual days", as do many school corporations, where the teachers will provide instruction virtually (Zoom, Google Meet, etc...) to the students. (can be snow days, because of the pandemic, etc...) 

However, students had the option (and many took it) to do "virtual schooling" for the whole semester, and this was a program provided by the State. These students are not considered enrolled in our school district. 

24 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said:

I haven't read through this whole thread, but part of the thing that will skew enrollment numbers for some schools are the availability of online schools that are not affiliated with their districts. One example is K12, an online school provider. If students attend this school, they are not enrolled in their home school district. K12 must consult with the home school district in regards to special education accommodations, but those students are K12 students. Our district has lost a fair number of other students to other online schools, or even to home school. When they enroll in those schools, they are unenrolled in our district. I would imagine many districts have encountered this and will see an enrollment decrease as a result. 

Basically this....should have read it before I started replying. 

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