6A Tournament Discussion

[adambetz]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I've been a proponant of that since the inception of 6A. 

2026 will more than likely see Cathedral and Snider (not ruling out a semi-state victory in 2025) back in 5A. Talk of 4A competing with 5A will finally come to an end. Question becomes, which of the following teams will be back in 6A? Could be two, could be none: Decatur Central, Merrillville, East Central, Warsaw, and Jeff. If the answer is none, then that's one hell of a strong class. 

PM me, I'm curious as to why. Don't need to make it public.

I went to Marion, we had like 1k less kids, that road trip sucked, just a rival. Nothing specific, just pettiness on my part.

Oh and they whooped us in everything. EVERYTHING.

Edited November 14, 2024 by adambetz

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, adambetz said:

I went to Marion, we had like 1k less kids, that road trip sucked, just a rival. Nothing specific, just pettiness on my part.

Oh and they whooped us in everything. EVERYTHING.

So the neighborhood bully so to speak. Just having a hard time finding success outside their territory. 

[adambetz]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

So the neighborhood bully so to speak. Just having a hard time finding success outside their territory. 

Pretty much. They've done a good job of scheduling aggressively in the non-con, but when there's only a couple of quality opponents in the NCC its hard to prepare yourself for the 6A/5A tourney. Most of the past decade the only schools that have been able to challenge them in conference have been Harrison, McCutcheon and Kokomo.

I just don't trust them to be battle tested come tournament time.

I hope the two WL schools stay on Jeff's schedule. I believe Jeff picked up North Central in week 5 next year, so I'm assuming the NCC schedule is shifting around quite a bit.

[BDGiant93]

3 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I think there is better competition between the teams left in 5A. East Central bumping from 4A to 5A has helped that. 

I am still a proponent that there should be 32 teams in 6A and 32 teams in 1A the 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A can all be 62 teams. I think that will make 5A even stronger. While competition between teams left in 5A is even I still think some 4A teams could compete or beat the 5A teams left (New Pal, Chatard, Martinsville, Mishawaka, East Noble). I think if you went to 62 teams in 5A you would get at least half of the remaining teams playing in 4A in 5A and it would be even more competitive.

Just my opinion.

I love the 32-62-62-62-62-32 idea.

Edited November 14, 2024 by BDGiant93

[temptation]

Jumped around from game to game tonight…man what great ones.

I now have one foot on board with Crown Point…LN was a terrible matchup for them in my opinion and they are now out of the way.

You could make a case for all four teams left.

At last…parity!

[Komets2727]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Jumped around from game to game tonight…man what great ones.

I now have one foot on board with Crown Point…LN was a terrible matchup for them in my opinion and they are now out of the way.

You could make a case for all four teams left.

At last…parity!

I would agree with you, LN could have run CP out of the building. Penalties killed LN tonight

[FastpacedO]

6 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I would agree with you, LN could have run CP out of the building. Penalties killed LN tonight

Penalties at the wrong time have plagued Lawrence North all year. They had been fortunate enough their speed and aggressive play over came them, but not last night. Like I said in a previous post they had flaws, but were able to overcome them with speed and aggressive defensive play.

Having watched Brownsburg play I knew they would present problems for LN because Brownsburg has the biggest O-line I have seen all year and LN was not really big up front. Coach Hart's staff did a good job exploiting LN's aggressive speedy defense with their run game by taking advantage of their propensity to over pursue. In the pass game they utilized short passes and screens to exploit over pursuit. Defensively I thought the Bulldogs did a solid job bottling up the speed similar to Cathedral. LN got some yardage but they wouldn't let them break big ones.

Coach Mallory made the right decision trying that 47 yard FG after trying to run a little clock. Their kicker came close to hitting it (soccer kid that just came out for football after the season started). They hit that and it is a 10 point lead with about 1:30 to go. Brownsburg offense went to a 2 minute drill drove right down the field to score and go for 2, I had no doubt in my mind Coach Hart was going for 2. To begin with I have seen Coach Hart take chances going for 2 when he coached Evansville Reitz and secondly he likely knew going into OT it would be more of a shootout and they would have to go for 2 at some point in OT.

I am still amazed at the throw and catch to Chandler to get out of bounds with 0.2 on the clock, that was a quick catch and fall out of bounds. It didn't matter the long FG was missed but man that was quick. It was a great game, I want to see Coach Mallory get himself a State Championship, he is a terrific coach that has turned Lawrence North around with years of hard work I would like to see it pay off. Coach Hart is a terrific coach and person so I am still happy for him.

Has Brownsburg ever played Center Grove with Coach Moore at the helm or even in tournament time? I know Coach Hart has wehn at Warren Central, but I don't think Brownsburg ever has, I will have to look that up.

Edited November 16, 2024 by FastpacedO

[FastpacedO]

Just looked it up. Brownsburg has not played Center Grove since 1990.

They have played each other 14 times Brownsburg leads the series 7-6-1, but they have not played each other in 34 years.

Edited November 16, 2024 by FastpacedO

[temptation]

2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Penalties at the wrong time have plagued Lawrence North all year. They had been fortunate enough their speed and aggressive play over came them, but not last night. Like I said in a previous post they had flaws, but were able to overcome them with speed and aggressive defensive play.

Having watched Brownsburg play I knew they would present problems for LN because Brownsburg has the biggest O-line I have seen all year and LN was not really big up front. Coach Hart's staff did a good job exploiting LN's aggressive speedy defense with their run game by taking advantage of their propensity to over pursue. In the pass game they utilized short passes and screens to exploit over pursuit. Defensively I thought the Bulldogs did a solid job bottling up the speed similar to Cathedral. LN got some yardage but they wouldn't let them break big ones.

Coach Mallory made the right decision trying that 47 yard FG after trying to run a little clock. Their kicker came close to hitting it (soccer kid that just came out for football after the season started). They hit that and it is a 10 point lead with about 1:30 to go. Brownsburg offense went to a 2 minute drill drove right down the field to score and go for 2, I had no doubt in my mind Coach Hart was going for 2. To begin with I have seen Coach Hart take chances going for 2 when he coached Evansville Reitz and secondly he likely knew going into OT it would be more of a shootout and they would have to go for 2 at some point in OT.

I am still amazed at the throw and catch to Chandler to get out of bounds with 0.2 on the clock, that was a quick catch and fall out of bounds. It didn't matter the long FG was missed but man that was quick. It was a great game, I want to see Coach Mallory get himself a State Championship, he is a terrific coach that has turned Lawrence North around with years of hard work I would like to see it pay off. Coach Hart is a terrific coach and person so I am still happy for him.

Has Brownsburg ever played Center Grove with Coach Moore at the helm or even in tournament time? I know Coach Hart has wehn at Warren Central, but I don't think Brownsburg ever has, I will have to look that up.

Great analysis.  LN was the ultimate high risk/high reward type of team.

Not walking back anything I said but I think their ceiling was the highest of any 6A team but their floor was also lower because of their lack of discipline and untimely turnovers.

Next weekend is gonna be fun.

[Titan32]

Go Dawgs!

[Bobref]

A Crown Point vs. Brownsburg final would be a great game. A real dogfight. 😂😅🤣

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Great analysis.  LN was the ultimate high risk/high reward type of team.

Not walking back anything I said but I think their ceiling was the highest of any 6A team but their floor was also lower because of their lack of discipline and untimely turnovers.

Next weekend is gonna be fun.

I will say though the horse collar penalty called on Lawrence North with about 44 secs to go was not good. Coach Mallory was pretty livid about it. After re-watching I can somewhat agree with Coach Mallory.

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=1599111 at about the 2:42:28 mark.

Edited November 16, 2024 by FastpacedO

[Bobref]

28 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I will say though the horse collar penalty called on Lawrence North with about 44 secs to go was not good. Coach Mallory was pretty livid about it. After re-watching I can somewhat agree with Coach Mallory.

https://www.ihsaatv.org/?B=1599111 at about the 2:42:28 mark.

The play with 44 sec. left in the 4th was an offensive holding foul on Brownsburg. It was the next play that was the horse collar tackle. And regardless of how livid someone was, it was the correct call.

This was not a “typical” horse collar tackle. That usually comes when the tackler is behind the runner, grabs the horse collar, and allows his weight to pull down the runner backwards. But it’s clear the elements of a horse collar tackle are there. It’s a foul to “Grab the inside back or side collar, or the name plate area (directly below the back collar), of either the shoulder pads or the jersey of the runner and subsequently pull (backward or sideward) that opponent to the ground (Horse-collar), even if possession is lost. The horse-collar foul is enforced as a live-ball foul.”

The video shows the defender grabbing the back of the jersey collar and pulling the QB backward to the ground. Fits the definition of a horse collar tackle.

There was a glitch, but it played no part in the outcome. The horse collar foul occurred with 0:30 on the clock. After enforcement, the referee properly started the clock on the ready for play signal. LN then encroached, which is a dead ball foul, so the clock stopped at 0:28 to enforce that penalty. After enforcement, the R wound the clock, but then shut it down immediately when they realized they hadn’t asked the Brownsburg coach if he wanted to elect to start the clock on the snap. That election is available to the offended team inside the last 2 minutes of each half if the opponent fouls with the game clock running. Brownsburg elected to have the clock start on the snap, so they reset the game clock to 0:28, where it was at the time of the encroachment foul. It should have been reset to 0:30, since that was the time on the clock at the conclusion of the play with the horse collar foul. So, Brownsburg was deprived of 2 seconds which, given the outcome, were meaningless.

Pretty good crew on this game with a state championship veteran Referee.

[FastpacedO]

14 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The play with 44 sec. left in the 4th was an offensive holding foul on Brownsburg. It was the next play that was the horse collar tackle. And regardless of how livid someone was, it was the correct call.

This was not a “typical” horse collar tackle. That usually comes when the tackler is behind the runner, grabs the horse collar, and allows his weight to pull down the runner backwards. But it’s clear the elements of a horse collar tackle are there. It’s a foul to “Grab the inside back or side collar, or the name plate area (directly below the back collar), of either the shoulder pads or the jersey of the runner and subsequently pull (backward or sideward) that opponent to the ground (Horse-collar), even if possession is lost. The horse-collar foul is enforced as a live-ball foul.”

The video shows the defender grabbing the back of the jersey collar and pulling the QB backward to the ground. Fits the definition of a horse collar tackle.

There was a glitch, but it played no part in the outcome. The horse collar foul occurred with 0:30 on the clock. After enforcement, the referee properly started the clock on the ready for play signal. LN then encroached, which is a dead ball foul, so the clock stopped at 0:28 to enforce that penalty. After enforcement, the R wound the clock, but then shut it down immediately when they realized they hadn’t asked the Brownsburg coach if he wanted to elect to start the clock on the snap. That election is available to the offended team inside the last 2 minutes of each half if the opponent fouls with the game clock running. Brownsburg elected to have the clock start on the snap, so they reset the game clock to 0:28, where it was at the time of the encroachment foul. It should have been reset to 0:30, since that was the time on the clock at the conclusion of the play with the horse collar foul. So, Brownsburg was deprived of 2 seconds which, given the outcome, were meaningless.

Pretty good crew on this game with a state championship veteran Referee.

So is the exception of QB in the pocket and runner in tackle box only for NFL?

[Bobref]

29 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

So is the exception of QB in the pocket and runner in tackle box only for NFL?

Yes.

[Bash Riprock]

47 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Yes.

Hey Bob!  Was that the same play the QB released the ball with no receiver in the area?  Could that have been offsetting fouls?  Could not tell if he released before the horse collar. I may be thinking another play. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. 

[temptation]

I’ll just say this heading into semi-state weekend…anyone picking against Moore and CG at this point is doing so at their own peril.

They might now be flashy, might not have the best win/loss record but I’m not betting against that guy anymore.

I mean, I am betting “team of destiny” is being tossed around to describe Brownsburg at this point but something has to give Friday night.

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Hey Bob!  Was that the same play the QB released the ball with no receiver in the area?  Could that have been offsetting fouls?  Could not tell if he released before the horse collar. I may be thinking another play. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. 

My recollection is that the horse collar was in progress. In that situation, really in any situation where there is contact against the passer before or during the passing motion, whether legal or illegal, you assume the errant pass was the result of the contact. So, no foul for intentional grounding.

[FastpacedO]

4 hours ago, Bobref said:

Yes.

Makes sense then, that was the only reason I said I somewhat agree. Knowing now that it does not apply to high school I take back my agreement 

[Justasportsfan]

23 hours ago, temptation said:

I’ll just say this heading into semi-state weekend…anyone picking against Moore and CG at this point is doing so at their own peril.

They might now be flashy, might not have the best win/loss record but I’m not betting against that guy anymore.

I mean, I am betting “team of destiny” is being tossed around to describe Brownsburg at this point but something has to give Friday night.

Dog fight would b great for 6a..bb vs cp..id bet on cg vs wf both showing up for their rematch though..if cg does not win it this year can we finally say the "new blood" era has officially arrived or does it take a couple titles outside the anointed 4?

[WestfieldRocks]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:01 AM, Bobref said:

Yes.

Not sure about that. This happened in one of the college games yesterday, and the color commentator said that he didn't think it was a horse collar, but even if it was, the QB was in the pocket, thus no horse collar could be called.

[Yuccaguy]

6 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Not sure about that. This happened in one of the college games yesterday, and the color commentator said that he didn't think it was a horse collar, but even if it was, the QB was in the pocket, thus no horse collar could be called.

The "positioning" of an offensive or defensive player (including the QB's as being 'in the pocket') has absolutely NO bearing in HS football as to whether or not it was/was not an penalty infraction.  

Again. this is HS football...NOT Collegiate or Professional FB.  

[PHJIrish]

Center Grove is tough to beat at home!

[GOLDRUSH1985]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:32 AM, temptation said:

I’ll just say this heading into semi-state weekend…anyone picking against Moore and CG at this point is doing so at their own peril.

They might now be flashy, might not have the best win/loss record but I’m not betting against that guy anymore.

I mean, I am betting “team of destiny” is being tossed around to describe Brownsburg at this point but something has to give Friday night.

I wouldn't bet against CG . They are my pick to be playing CP at Lucas Oil . 

[FastpacedO]

6 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Dog fight would b great for 6a..bb vs cp..id bet on cg vs wf both showing up for their rematch though..if cg does not win it this year can we finally say the "new blood" era has officially arrived or does it take a couple titles outside the anointed 4?

I don’t think you could say that. Regardless what Center Grove does against Brownsburg (win or lose) they have plenty to build on next year. At this point the Trojans consistently reload.

Ben Davis and Warren Central will always have athletes. I also don’t see the HCC going anywhere though they will be good next year.