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….and it’s not always like this every time the two “C” word Indy P/Ps are in the subject heading? It’s looking more like Facebook here every day.

When the thought of the game itself is unbelievably boring, this is the thread you get.

Ok, so this gets even better with this turf/grass issue.....I'm betting DeYoung's mom is concerned about mud on those pretty whites. It's ok, after all, DeYoung is the new guy.

Last year, I started really working hard on the youth program at Rochester. Everyone better watch out in 2072. Rochester is gonna be opening up a can of whoopa$$ on everybody!!! Captain Insano shows no mercy!

Hey, I never said anything about what makes a real football player! Just highlighting the difference in field surfaces while, God forbid, talking a little trash. Hey, anything to break up the love fest this thread was starting to turn into. What a difference a couple of years make...

I’ve got a better question…. Have you seen the weather forecast? How are the Turf Titans going to handle getting mud on them immaculately clean golden and maroon uniforms???

You gotta know when to hold ‘em … and when to fold ‘em.

Niceness is out the window now…. The poverty patriots hopes it rains so much that you Titans can suck a duck…. I meant turkey!

Looks like BD vs CG one of the top MaxPreps games of the week.....

Biggie Smalls?

He’s like Taylor Swift over on Facebook.

That boy named Cody

I think Ben Davis is the better team. No disrespect to Center Grove, and it may not end up that way on the scoreboard, but I think BD, on paper, has more in the three phases. Now, Center Grove has plenty of state level experience to make up for all that. You can't beat the run they've been on. They expect to win. I just think that the Giants defense has been playing very good football. They have given up some plays, but they've been solid in the clutch. They've been turning turnovers into points. I also think this is a rare occasion when BD might have the advantage over CG in the kicking game. That's definitely played into things. I have nothing but respect for Center Grove's program and its fans. Our teams have had a lot of battles over the years, and I think this will be another one on Friday night. If the Trojans win, like I said, hat's off to them. They will have beaten one of the best Ben Davis teams in the last 30 years.

I'm afraid to say who, it is said that if you say his name three times in a chat forum he will magically appear!

I saw this as well. There is no way in H311 that anyone called anyone with regard to a playing surface. The jungle is like home to these GS kids who have never lost a game there. In fact...in a recent poll...the GS kids voted "The Woods" as their 2nd favorite place to play!!

I've been in the wrong thread this whole week. This is way better than the Chatard/Knox one. Just a bunch of Catholics kissing each others butts over there. Just some good 'ole fashion humor over here.

Times were better before the damn Catholics showed up and started defending themselves!!!

Not particularly. If you've always had an enrollment over the last 20 years that's kept you squarely in the middle of a class based on demand, then a statement like that might just be acknowledging facts. I've been in Indiana for over 20 years and every year I hear the Catholic school system do their annual enrollment spiel from the pulpits urging the choir to send their kids to the Catholic schools, but LCC was 1A when I got here and, at least by enrollment, is still 1A ... by a bunch. 378 is the top of 1A and LCC's a pinch under 300. If it was really about restricting enrollment to stay in a class, LCC's still easily got 50+ kids as slack to play with. Heck, given that, with SF they are in 2A with enough points to stay in 2A next cycle, restriction to stay in 1A's off the table and LCC could get all the way up to 500 and stay in 2A by enrollment. I'd be surprised, even with vouchers, to see LCC get close to 500.

I was referring more to Harbaugh’s insane characterization of Michigan as victim in this matter. It’s irrational. But sure …

Yeah! Everybody knows Notre Dame is America's College Football Team.

I'm not so arrogant to ever presume or say we have anything figured out. In fact, I often have far more questions than answers. I would be interested in knowing what had you in the hallowed halls of 1500 Lincoln Ave so as to be able to make a comparison between Memorial and Southridge? Our students wear uniforms (including ties for boys), so the populations will look much different. But aside from that, I will agree with you 100% that the expectations for success in all aspects of the high school experience at a p/p school are very high, and there is likely a significant amount of students in most public schools whose parents do not have that same expectation. I have great respect for Titan32, but his "effective enrollment" theory is flawed. First, the timing has always intrigued me. We never heard about "effective enrollment" when GS was beating Memorial 3 straight years in football Sectionals from 2012-2014. It was only when Memorial beat GS 3 straight years from 2016-2018 that the theory first came to light. Second, at one time the theory was that MD (500 students) had an effective enrollment similar to GS (700) students. Yet, Memorial (550 students) had an effective enrollment similar to Castle (1950 students). How can that possibly be when MD and Memorial are pretty much identical in nearly every measurable category? I suspect it might be because, with few exceptions, GS generally doesn't face MD in an IHSAA tournament, so it's a comparison that will never be "tested" on a playing field. If Memorial has an effective enrollment similar to Castle, shouldn't we have been able to better compete with an EC team last week (who has 700 less kids than Castle)? We got boat-raced. Why doesn't Chatard dominate in all sports? As I understand it, football is pretty much it for them. Why doesn't MD dominate in boys soccer like they do in wrestling? Why is our girls soccer program so good but our softball program struggles something fierce? Why don't the advantages translate for the p/p schools in those sports?

Quite a few old Elkhart/Goshen families are currently living in Northridge, Northwood, & Fairfield districts. I'm sure some of the other adjacent districts to Elkhart/SB have also seen some of those movers. Further, there is a HUGE amount of old NLC familites living in the north burbs of Indy. There are lot NLC offspring on HCC/HamCo rosters down here.

So funny you guys argue about this and no mentions that private schools can restrict enrollment keeping the bad seeds out that is their biggest advantage end of story.

And the meek shall inherit 2A north

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” Lewis Carrol’s Through the Looking Glass😅😂🤣

What is the secret sauce that the P/P's have over similar public counterparts?? You really don't know the answer? LOL...I can tell you it is NOT that you all have figured out you need to have a Youth program - that is happening in every good football program in the State. The answer is very plain and simple - the socioeconomic build-up of your student population. I have walked the halls of Memorial and I have walked the halls of SR - I can tell you they are NOT the same - not even CLOSE. Even though our enrollments might be close in #- I can tell you we are not pulling from the same population. And that right there folks is the biggest difference between your publics and P/P's. I believe Titan32 has coined the term "effective enrollment" It is NOT because you all figured out how to have a YOUTH program lol.....the arrogance

I think most small (3A and smaller) try this model. I think we have a pretty good youth program, a REALLY good weight/conditioning program, and a really good coaching staff that are involved with all aspects of the program (from youth to Jr. High to High School). What you don't probably see or understand is it's a numbers game. Webo had about 100 tackle players this past year. 40 in 2nd/3rd, 36 in 4th/5th, and 22 in 6th grade. Chatard didn't build the CYO program. The success of Chatard, Brebeuf, Guerin, Cathedral, Scecina, Roncalli, Ritter, etc. all helped in building that program. From that point, the kids then select where they want to attend HS. I am sure the CYO program helps with that. You get a group of kids that all want to play together, and they go to school together. That is an advantage that small programs don't have. We have who we have. Some classes are larger, some have a few more athletes. The CYO is a large organization. To compare the youth league of the CYO to other 2A or 3A programs isn't comparing apples to apples. The CYO draws kids from all over the city. Webo draws from kids from Jamestown, Thorntown, Dover... Not exactly the same population as any "side" of the city.

I haven’t read every post in this thread, but I believe a great feeder program is critical, great coaching is critical and numbers are critical. Throw in community support as well. No matter what level or where you are playing. Work wins.

Marshall only had 19 carriers against Ben Davis.. Did that game not matter? Last time I checked Harrison is in Ohio.. Ignorance

Apparently if you’re from the region “there” covers 3 words

I kinda feel bad for the Christians. Every game post turns into stuff not about football. 2nd and foremost I don’t care about free lunch or if someone thinks they have too many Mexicans in their school. I gotta go

EC’s strength of schedule is terrible and they didn’t play any other Ohio teams. CG was the opposite.

If we're getting all of this out of the way this week, what will fill the thread next week?

I think you gotta have 20+ D1 offers to say that name.

Second time this tourney that the Giants have had a top 4 game in the MaxPreps ratings. (Other one was Brownsburg)

I thought it was 4 points originally to stay up…..then moved down to 2.

Oxi clean Mrs DeYoung!! Works wonders along with a good pressure washer!

First of all, this is what I said when I heard this. Secondly, your response is gold. See, this is the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

If this fine forum ever devolves to the level of the fakebook page created by the Merryville moron.....I will walk away. LOL I've been super busy and haven't had time to respond to some of the stuff here. It's all good and thoughtfully written. I have great respect for all of my P/P brothers here, although I made this argument long before Memorial peaked (although hadn't coined the catchy catch phrase yet)...probably started around 2013 and 2015...what cold winters those were. But come on fellas, P/Ps of various types have dominated in every state in the union forcing every state in the union to search for equitable solutions around why enrollment alone doesn't work. The whole world can't be wrong that solutions are needed. So some P/Ps are better at some sports than others. Publics and Privates aren't different in that regard because: All of the things it takes to make a program great, tradition, strong youth programs, strong feeder programs, great staff, great admin, community support...exist on both sides of the coin. It would be rare for either a public or private to have all of these factors across every sport, boy and girl. The issue is, and will always be, a higher percentage of quality hard working student athletes roaming the halls. A P/P is more likely to attract these type of students just by the nature of getting what one pays for, and a desire for those parents who chose to make that sacrifice to pair their children with like minded families (which is a noble endeavor). If we are going to go to the trouble of having a class system, lets align them in a way that actually makes sense....not in a way that ends up looking like some are purchasing an advantage in athletics. Enrollment alone just isn't fair and that is recognized nation wide.

Luers Mud Bowl is ready:

One aspect specifically relating to Catholic schools that is often overlooked is multiple K-8 feeders feeding one HS. Looking specifically at smaller classes, but the fact that one HS might have 3-4 QB’s getting quality reps in MS, 6-8 RB’s, 15-20 OL, etc. While their public school counterparts have only one feeder school so competition starts in the 7th grade. Again looking specifically at boys how many public school kids lose interest because their classmates who matured sooner dominated all those positions in MS and walked away. Then the late bloomers are beasts when they’re upperclassmen but they’ve moved on to other things.

Let’s get through this year first.

Agree. I might add that ESPN is the CNN of sports. Good for live sports without all the babble in between.

*Penix

Coach, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know the history of Chatard in 4A….but it’s going to be Tolstoy in length…but hardly as literary…I’ll leave that to @Muda and his misspelled acronyms. For the record, anyone bothering to read this likely should grab a cup of coffee. For the record, nobody is any less happy about Chatard being in 3A than Chatard football fans….at least this one, anyway. Pretty sure I represent a majority, though. With that, 4A is not always better than 3A..but it is in most years. Regardless, either 3A or 4A is almost always better than 5A – I include in this the 70% of the time 5A is ACTUALLY WON BY A BUMPED UP 4A TEAM. If Chatard could somehow ultimately claw its way through 4A into 5A, I doubt it would ever leave 5A. With that, let’s start with a recent history primer of Chatard in 3A and 4A (4A boldfaced and underlined😞 2013: (Year 1 of the Success Factor with 4 Points required to stay in 4A) Chatard wins Sectional v. Roncalli 28-8. They lose Regional, in a game that was decided late, v. New Palestine. This year was the start of New Pal’s great success under Coach Ralph. Their Chatard win was the first statewide sign something special was cooking there. Chatard earns 1 point. 2014: Chatard rolls over and supines itself to Roncalli 31-6 in Sectional after beating them 20-7 in the regular season. No further comment. Chatard earns 0 points…back to 3A. 2015: Chatard wins 3A State 2016: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Vince Lorenzano’s last year) 2017: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Rob Doyle’s first year) 2018: Chatard loses 3A Semi-State to Evansville Memorial…admittedly losing ugly. 2019: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #3 All Classes…New Pal was ranked #1 All Classes) 2020: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #6 All Classes). For the record, they beat later 4A state champion Roncalli 28-7 that year (Roncalli’s sole loss). 2021: Chatard loses to Roncalli in 4A Sectional 35-21. Lest folks forget, this was the year Roncalli with their monster line (just coming off a State Championship) was talked about much like East Central today….until they lost in an upset to Mt Vernon (who easily won State). Chatard earns 0 points. 2022: Chatard is put back in 3A (don’t ask me why…I still don’t understand it). Chatard wins 3A State. This is the history. Chatard has only ever been in 4A for 3 years. They’ve only been knocked out of 4A once in 2014 where they needed 4 points to stay up. That said, in 2024, have no doubt the slack jaws at the IHSAA will put Brebeuf, Chatard, Roncalli, Cincy Elder, Cincy St.X and Cincy Moeller in the same Sectional….or dream about it, anyway. Regardless, Brebeuf, Chatard and Roncalli WILL be in the same Sectional….because…. In its absolute worst years, Chatard will almost always be a top 5-10 4A team (I believe they should be in the North...for the record). Frankly, Chatard doesn’t seem to experience the same high/low swings Roncalli does. Still, historically Chatard will almost always also split 50/50 with Roncalli…who has a bit of a tradition, as well (but tends to have bigger “lows” than Chatard does in off years). When Roncalli is “good”, they’re “State Champion good”. Regardless, I have been told until my ears bleed that the IHSAA DEEPLY evaluates these Sectional groupings considering a multitude of factors including historic conferences…..yada, yada, yada….BS, BS, BS….smoke blowing up my hindquarters. Which has always been used to explain just how Roncalli’s next door, talking over the fence neighbor New Palestine is never paired with Roncalli in Sectional…but 45 minute North Indianapolis cross-county Chatard is ALWAYS paired with Roncalli. That said, can’t the IHSAA figure out a way to simply put Chatard, New Pal and Roncalli in 3 different Sectionals? Just that little effort would likely keep a prolonged and forever peace in 3A. Tragically, the IHSAA has continued to give us year after year the “Sectional of Death” in 3A (copyright to @foxbat) or equivalent which, by any consideration, is gerrymandered as Hell but always has Chatard in the crosshairs (along with every Indiana HS Catholic north of the Mason Dixon line)….but ultimately screws over tons of great teams like TV, HH, WL, Guerin and too many teams to mention. I’m still p!ssed off as to how badly Tippecanoe Valley was screwed over between Sectional pairings and the damn ping pong balls. I have no doubt they will continue that proud tradition into 4A next year…wherever those Catholic Schools might be. If the IHSAA truly gave a sh!t about the principle behind the Success Factor shouldn’t it ALSO be a consideration in that DEEP evaluation of Sectional pairings…or do you just let another equivalent of the 3A TW AD (some of you get the “code”) make the pairings in 4A as well? Up to this point, the IHSAA Sectional pairings appear nothing more than self-interested groupings by those school administrators involved in the decision making process with no actual consideration of the overall picture….those non-decision makers get the “Sectional of Death”. I’m as angry as anybody about Chatard being in 3A (whether they win or lose this Friday…or possibly the following week). The Success Factor can actually work if the IHSAA actively considers the principle behind it as regards Sectional groupings. I say this as someone who was a very vocal sceptic…just ask Coach Gallogly. If they don’t, and just allow it to become the playground for self-interested 4A ADs…like those behind the "Sectional of Death" in 3A, then nothing will be resolved. My guess is that, ultimately, those involved in the decision process at the IHSAA will most likely place self-interest over principle come Sectional announcement time. Please, prove me wrong. You can now return to the original thread....

Or the fact that MD NEVER got moved up...not once ?

The biggest assist to P/P enrollment in the Indy area is the absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school. Any of the public school parents out in the cornfields and mountains of this beautiful state should be counting their blessings that their kids get to participate in sports at the cost of only their tax dollars. Having to fork over more money as a parent just to ensure that our kids can go to a school where they do not have to pass through metal detectors daily and their education at least prepares them for college is not our dream. I wouldn’t mind at all if my kid could go to a safe, high quality school, win more than they lose in the sport of their choice, get to make great life-long friends and some day get to reminisce about the good old days. Until then, I want the highest quality education, environment and athletics for my kid if I am writing a check. If you think you wouldn’t do the same in our situation then you are lying to yourself.

Plot twist: Parkhurst actually hates Merrillville and his goal is to make the entire state also hate them.

My cousin and her husband, Danny, are both Connersville HS grads. After many years away working for Caterpillar in the Peoria area they moved back to Connersville to be closer to my Aunt and Uncle. This past Spring, my wife and I visited with them in Connersville over a long lunch along with my, sadly, recently widowed Uncle Morris. Connersville, as most us here likely know, has never had much of a football tradition and is, almost exclusively, a basketball town. Danny, knowing I’m a big follower of HS football stated, “You know, Connersville had a couple of pretty good years where it looked like they were going to become a seriously solid football school. They had this young coach named Russ Radtke. Then he moved on. You ever heard of him?” I chuckled inwardly and responded, “Yeah…he’s still floating around out there.” PS - I did later tell him just how successful and remarkable Mr. Radtke’s coaching career continued to be….to this day. Kudos and best wishes to Coach Radtke and the Knox HS Redskins as they visit the Chatard Trojans this Friday.

I will take East Central