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Stinky, Stink, Stink 1.2..3....I think it is time for the Clown to speak about this game! The Patriots stormed from Lincoln City, To the Oil Can, showing no pity. Fort Wayne Catholics thought they’d run the show, But Heritage Hills shouted, “Not so!” The clowns were drunk, the nuns were bold, Hook-ups rumored (or so it’s told). For Luers fans, that might have been bright, ‘Cause their team’s game? A downright fright. StinkTown swears they’ll be back next year, With Tiger BLs and cans of cheer. If Semi-State brings them down south, Expect empty cans and a rowdy mouth! Public schools forever, they do it right, Private school cheaters? Stay out of sight. So here’s to the Patriots, champs of the day, Lincoln City’s pride, the 3A way!

Nothing says more about the irrelevancy of 5A than the fact the fact that the 5th-7th team in 4A (Martinsville) beat the 5A State Champion team. Not to be overtly political, and I know this might well piss off several friends of mine here, but the simple existence of 5A is literally the DEI of Indiana HS Football. Its an embarrassing class. Sorry....an "also ran" award for teams that couldn't win 4A or 6A (Snider excepted).

Not always the case, if you live outside the borders of the public school you must pay to come Advantage of Private vs Pubic which I am sure you all are aware of What is the population of students at Andrean and Lafayette Central Catholic (the 2 I am most familiar with) of ESL students and IEP/SPED programing? For instance last I checked Rensselaer had about 35 or so students who are very much low level 0 ESL students and another good chunk of Life Skills students, so if our enrollment on paper is 435, in actuality of available athletes pool is really about 350. Do you think Rensselaer has 88% Athletic participation like Andrean does ? Yes that's right, it's near 90% of every human being of HS age at Andrean is involved in at least 1 SPORT the school offers. So with an enrollment of 450 or so, at near 90%, that is whole lot of options to choose from to make your athletic teams. I am pretty sure LCC is very similar. So when these conversations happen, this is what many publics fans/coaches. etc get frustrated with. Its a stacked deck when it comes PP and how their classification is figured out because PP can control an enrollment by simply not having programing that Publics have to offer, such as SPED services, migrant/transient families who show up within the school borders. Please don't look at this message as me whining about LCC/Andrean for instance, many great peoples and Coach Skinner is a very close friend of mine and I am very much a Coach Nay fan as well. These are just the facts of why many get frustrated. We have been knocked out by Luers in 2009/2010 Semi State and we've. beaten LCC in 2014 Semi State and Mater Dei in state same year, not one time during these games or any other have our coaches talked or made this a talking point for our players in prep. Just went out and did what we did and sometimes it has went really well, others times not so much.

I've dealt with Doyel firsthand. He went on a fishing expedition for a "hot take" story that was 100% ground in falsehood and rumor, I (along with a couple of other people) was able to head him off and get him to not run with his story. The Caitlin Clark moment he had this spring was not unusual for him. He tries to make himself the story. There are a lot of really good, professional columnists around. We've had a few in Indiana - Bob Kravitz in Indy, Ben Smith in Fort Wayne, Mike Lopresti is back writing for some statewide newspapers after his long stint at USA Today. You can have an opinion while researching and telling all sides of the story and present it. Doyel just goes straight for whatever hot take opinion will generate the most clicks.

The title of this thread has never been on the interwebs.

I was referring to a parent who is comparing a public school (let's say Castle) and a p/p school (let's say Ev. Memorial). Castle is free and has incredible facilities - far superior to Memorial in every way. Plus, the parent has to transport the child to Memorial (at least until they can drive if they are lucky enough to have a set of wheels). So in that respect, Castle has very distinct advantages over Memorial. I am not a denier. I understand the student populations are different, some much more than others. But in my opinion, the answer is not a blanket multiplier applied to all p/p schools regardless of relative success. How can anyone rationalize multiplying schools like Hammond Bishop Noll, Washington Catholic, or Vincennes Rivet?

I don't disagree with what you have stated and I completely understand you saying you are obviously biased. I have 100% enjoyed your posts about your Tigers as it has given me more knowledge of Warsaw prior to me watching game film or seeing them in the State Finals. I had absolutely no rooting interest in this game. Trust me I totally get the woulda coulda shoulda and the ifs or buts. From an outsiders perspective both teams could use that. A biased DC Hawks fans could also use that to their advantage with missed FG's late in the 3rd qtr and 4th qtr etc. So from an outsider it kind of becomes a wash. I don't feel I have ever stated 1 team had better Jimmy and Joe's to win the game. I felt Decatur Central had to take advantage of their possessions to not let Warsaw get a lead and play keep away and they accomplished that. If Warsaw were to build any lead I felt DC would be in trouble because Warsaw would do what they do best and bleed the clock with a lead.

It really just just depends on the which team you're rooting for. For 90% of us, when your team turns the ball over, it's because you did a lousy job of protecting it. If you're team is on the receiving end of the turnovers, it's because the defense forced them. Human nature at work. Ten percent of us are in that category that says, look, the better team put more points on the board, plain and simple. No matter how you look at it, Decatur Central is your state champ. The better team won. All I'm saying, is that predicting Warsaw to win wasn't "wishfull thinking." I mean damn, the Tigers rushed for 337 yards on 7.3 yards per carry. It's not like they were "outmatched." There's too much petty talk on this board about how the North stinks. For those of you who use Sagarin to support your opinions, they have 3 of the top 4 teams in 5A coming from the North. And 4 of the top 6.

After some further thought on this matter, perhaps Arizona has the best idea. At the end of the season, they take the eight best teams no matter size or class and put them in an "Open" tournament. Seems to work well for them.

Aged like fine wine. Lol

Let's compare temptation's top 25 final list to Mr. Neddenriep's final power rankings: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2024/12/03/indiana-high-school-football-super-25-final-state-power-rankings-ihsaa-state-finals-2024/76713663007/?tbref=hp

From the 1920's through the 1970's, far northern Indiana always seemed to have the best football teams in the state. Northern Indiana ruled Indiana high school football. These teams were rated number 1 in the polls they were using back then. 1927 - Gary Froebel 9-0 1929 - Gary Mann 9-1 1931 - South Bend Central 11-0 1936 - Gary Mann 9-1 1937 - Hammond 10-0 1939 - South Bend Washington 9-0-1 1942 - East Chicago Washington 9-0 1943 - South Bend Washington 10-0 1944 - South Bend Washington 9-0-1 1945 - East Chicago Roosevelt 10-0 1946 - East Chicago Roosevelt 10-0 1947 - East Chicago Roosevelt 10-0 1949 - East Chicago Roosevelt 1950 - Gary Roosevelt 8-0-1 1953 - South Bend Washington 10-0 1954 - Whiting 8-1 1955 - East Chicago Roosevelt 9-0 1958 - South Bend Central 10-0 1959 - South Bend Central 10-0 1960 - Hammond 10-0 1962 - Hammond 10-0 1963 - Elkhart 10-0 1964 - South Bend St. Joseph 9-0-1 1965 - Hammond Morton 10-0 1966 - South Bend Adams 9-0 1968 - Elkhart 10-0 1969 - South Bend Washington 10-0 1970 - Elkhart 10-0 The playoffs began in 1973 and South Bend Washington beat Cathedral 19-13 for the 3a championship. In 1977 SB Washington went 10-2 and they would not have another 10 win season until 2011. This year SB Washington went 0-10. On November 6, 1943 West Lafayette went up to South Bend to play South Bend Washington at School Field. West Lafayette had won 24 games in a row. Many thought this was the Mythical State Championship game. West Lafayette 1943 Season Results 39 Indy Washington 0 21 Hoopeston, IL 0 14 Lafayette Jeff 0 20 Peru 0 41 Frankfort 0 27 Monticello 2 14 Lafayette Jeff 0 25 Crawfordsville 7 WL beat Jeff 14-0 twice that year and that was the only 2 games Jeff lost in 1943. The SB Washington/WL game was played in a driving rain and the field was a sea of mud. 2000 fans braved the elements. WL kicked off to SB Washington and on the 2nd play SB's Ernie Zalejski ran 55 yards for a TD. South Bend Washington beat West Lafayette 27-0. This is an example of how good the teams from South Bend were in the 1940's. What happened to the teams from northern Indiana? Most of the schools in NW Indiana don't have very good football teams today.

Brownsburg Westfield Lawrence North Center Grove Warren Central Indianapolis Cathedral New Palestine Crown Point Fishers Hamilton Southeastern Decatur Central Carroll (Fort Wayne) Bishop Chatard Fort Wayne Snider Heritage Hills East Central Evansville Memorial Warsaw Lafayette Jefferson East Noble Merrillville Concord Mishawaka Roncalli Bloomington South

New Pal isn’t top 10 and DC isn’t top 15, what a joke

Nah, you're good. We don't read your stuff anyway.

Whoops! No i did not 🤣 please disregard

waaa we can't win a championship unless all of the competition gets moved up to 4a first

You do know this article is for a Lebanon, Pennsylvania, right?

next year is finally gibson southern's year, now that HH will be in 4A where they belong. just can't possibly expect them to compete with other schools the exact same size as them.

Personally, IU should be a #7 seed and hosting #10 Georgia. Welcome to 20 degrees and snow, Bulldogs!!!

I am the one who was down on DC and I will take that hit, not BTF.

How dare they not play this on Field Turf! It is a good thing @Lysander and his wire cutters were not a twinkle in his daddy's eye yet or the lights would have been cut after the 55 yard TD. Only kidding @Tippy great post!

I was wondering with the classic CHIRP CHIRP. 🙂 Never heard of the Harvard however, I just know I didn't want to write a 600 word essay in 1998 as part of the admission process, so that went into the trash can and this Purdue Application with no essay went in the mail. Rest as they say......is history

Hey, stop dragging me into this never ending impossible to prove any side correct type of subjective argument, lol. I will say I was in the stands while Zionsville beat Franklin Central. I don't believe for a second the defense I saw that night could have stopped Crown Point's OL and Run game. Zionsville had 191 yards rushing that night with a smaller OL than Crown Point and a Junior RB (Manna) who is not as good as Ellison. I also saw nothing from FC's offense to make me think Crown Point's DL and LB'ers would have struggled with them. It is what it is. Westfield's lines dominated Crown Point in crappy weather and the MOV will forever be used as definitie proof that subjective opinions are correct.

Amy Adams Strunk...is she the same owner that pushed away legendary Coach Tony D'Amato for the up and coming offensive minded Nick Crozier? As a result, the Miami Sharks were never the same.......

Vrabel got fired because the organization could not produce an elite QB. He’s got one here. That said, I could get behind Joe Brady. My concern with him is the absence of head coaching experience. At any level.

I would love to see an SEC team come up play somewhere here in the great Midwest on a nice COLD SNOWY day in December Bring me IU v s Georgia that would be very delightful however, I just from pure savage point of view, too many reversible jacket folk I come into contact with, so still would love to see that matchup

Don't understand the reasoning behind this question but maybe I am naive. East Central has been a powerhouse at the 4A level and was likely a top 10 team regardless of class last year. They graduated Ringer and a host of others (unless I am mistaken), moved up to 5A and played the eventual 5A state champions closer than anyone in the tournament. What am I missing here? Sounds a lot like New Pal honestly.

I think you are missing the point of a multiplier ...it is implemented (at least, to my understanding) to acknowledge the fact that P/P enrollment (for the most part) doesn't have Special Education programs, and/or low socio-economic/disadvantaged students - thus creating an advantage when your sole factor in classification is enrollment number. Again, Chatard/Memorial's 620 is not the same as a public's 620. I do applaud the success factor and agree it has been a good thing. Just ask the Patriots this year...they may not have had that blue ring if Chatard was in 3A.

I don't believe EC is able to leave for just football. I think their only hope is schools like Greensburg, South Dearborn and others come to a mutual agreement to not schedule games against EC anymore.

Send Princeton down to Div 2.

I've been saying that for years. It would be so convenient for PC. All of their games would be a quick trip on 64, minus Pike Central. I think they fit really well there.

Go independent in football.....continue to play Lawrenceburg, Batesville and maybe Franklin County in football.....stay in EIAC for all other sports. Problem solved.

They should join the Circle City Conference. Its only a 1-1.5 hour drive and they only have to play 4 games a year to meet conference obligations. In football, they have already played 1 or 2 of those conference members for the last 10-20 plus years (Chatard or Roncalli). Add that they would be playing other non-football State Championship level teams during the regular season. As strange as it sounds, they would fit nicely (assuming the CCC sees it the same way) and it would HUGELY upgrade the bar for them vs. the EIAC.....and I say that as an old EIAC guy who won some championships and some All-Conference nods back in the day.

You are not very good at comprehension are you. Yes there are advantages that Private/Parochial schools have over public schools, there are also advantages that Public schools have over other Public schools. There are advantages that some public schools have over Private/Parochial schools. You totally missed the point of the post. The point of the post is NO MULTIPLIER is going to achieve what you want it to achieve. There are "MORE" factors than just "enrollment" which is what a "MULTIPLIER" is addressing. If you can't grasp that then I can't help you either.

When it comes to mention of turnovers couldn't it also be true that the opposing team forced those turnovers? A team can offset yardage given up by forcing 5 turnovers. In this game I feel like Decatur Central did a good job of getting the lead and not allowing Warsaw to take the lead where they could play keep away. I felt coming into this game the Hawks had to make their possessions count so Warsaw couldn't get a lead and play keep away with the clock. This is imperative when you play a ball control team, if you take away the ability for them to have a lead and bleed clock limiting possessions you have a solid shot at winning the game. Fall behind and it puts a lot of pressure on your defense to get a stop. I think they did a solid job of that. 10 possessions 5 resulted in TD's, 1 resulted in a FG, 2 resulted in missed FG's, 1 was a kneel down to end the half, and 1 was an Int in the endzone (ill advised throwing into double coverage).

Wonder if Vrabel high on the Bears list puts pressure on the Ohio State admin?

Don't sell yourself short on 5A. You never would have predicted Warsaw turning the ball over five times. What surprised me in that game was how bad both defenses were. It was one of those games where the team with the least amount of mistakes was going to win the game.

Rumor is we are playing Apollo (rather have O'boro or Catholic) in place of CAL, that was just a 1 year deal. Another one going around is that South Spencer is dropping us (finally!) and that may end up being filled by a KY school....we'll see. Things will get moved around with the swapping of Southridge and Mount Vernon big to small.

Your bias is showing. One could also say that for years prior to the success factor, public schools with disadvantaged populations were being penalized by having to face private schools on a regular basis, in many cases yearly, who do not have a disadvantaged population, giving them an inherent advantage. By the way, public schools are impacted by the success factor as well.

If East Central was about 45 minutes west of their actual location, they would be a very nice fit to replace Shelbyville in the Hoosier Heritage Conference. They would also be a pretty good fit to replace Greenwood in the Mid-State Conference. It’s a long haul for several schools in either of those conferences, so it is unlikely that they would get into either of them. The best fit for East Central is probably the Southwest Ohio Conference. It currently has just 4 members - Harrison, Talawanda, Mount Healthy, and Cincinnati Northwest. All of those schools are less than 45 minutes from East Central and have enrollments of 850-1100 students. Adding East Central as a 5th member helps those schools with a 4th conference football game and it leaves East Central with several weeks to schedule opponents from Indiana.

The whole week leading up to my son's state championship is such a blur and it goes by so quickly....then you win ....get your medal...then they shove you out the back door to celebrate in the parking lot LOL.

And Brownsburg only beat Avon 21-13 in the sectional.

It wasn't easy for me to put fourteen Indy teams in my Top 17, eighteen in my Top 23. But I'm trying to be as objective as possible. Large Indy schools have just taken this state over.

First game of the season. You said it yourself. If you plan on upsetting a team, you may want to do it in Week 1. I gave a lot of credit to Avon for the final three weeks. My poll doesn't reflect body of work through the whole season near as much as how I think teams are playing right now. Some people may think I'm nuts for having Ben Davis at #10. But if the games were being played tomorrow, that's exactly where I would have them.

Oh Fo Sho! Forget the students... what the hell am I going to do at work without checking back in here every 15 minutes to argue with you guys?! 😉 Going to be one hell of a long boring 9 months that's for sure! Couldn't be happier with the results of this season though. Luers was a good team. I'd put money on Memorial beating them, and would be very interested in seeing them vs Gibson Southern. Maybe next year 🙂 Go HOOSIERS!!!

I seriously appreciate this comment. I was having this very discussion with my brother in law, "how many state titles if not for a team that rhymes with Chatard?" 2001, 2002, 2004. 2005....among others and a few of those games were very close, oh well here we are. Maybe we recover from graduation next year and meet again????

I even question whether Heritage Hills shouldn’t be No. 3.

This aged like a bottle of Boones Farm tickled pink. I swear to God it did