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I have been thinking about this thread, probably a little too much this week. I am not naive enough to think the keyboard warriors of a message board will have much sway over IHSAA opinion, especially because your post and others in this thread are a little too logical and rational for that. But I digress. One of the issues in this debate is the strict lumping of P/Ps into a one-size-fits-all category. Hat tip to @Esso Ayche for his data dive into the last decade, but notice we are talking about FOUR (4) schools in Ft. Wayne, Lafayette, and Indianapolis and used their success as the catalyst to change the statewide playoff system with the SF points. To Gibson Southern fans like yourself 2013, 2015, and 2016 are all the same. A great team that had their season ended by a P/P school. Never mind that in 2013 it was Brebeuf, 2015 it was Chatard, and 2016 was Memorial. Memorial fans can give a long list of how they are different from the Indianapolis schools, and Chatard and Brebeuf can point out distinct differences between a private Jesuit school and an Archdiocesan school. And all three schools will show differences between Evansville Day, Evansville Christian, Cathedral, Park Tudor, and La Lumiere - other members of the P/P grouping. Pardon the poor analogy, but I assume Gibson Southern would bristle as well to be grouped with East Noble, Western Boone, and North Vermillion with constant banter about how Directional County Schools (DCS) have had playoff success the last 3-4 years. This is one sticking point that prevents discussion every time a multiplier is raised. A second problem with a multiplier is that it would be hard to quantify exactly what it should be. I thoroughly enjoyed @George Orwell 2's statistics refresher although he didn't draw a distinction between which variables are endogenous and exogeneous. (Nerd joke.) Put another way, we are trying to set up classifications based upon success, but success is also determined by the initial classification. Cathedral as a 4A school is much different than Cathedral as a 6A school. But the same could be said for New Pal and Columbus East. Additionally, some who favor a multiplier give no justification for 1.5, 1.6, 1.8. 2.0, etc. The only explanation DT has given for a 2.0 is that other states have 1.6 and 1.85 and it doesn't seem to do enough. Well if Spinal Tap logic is all we need, let's turn it all the way up to 11. I don't want to conflate football success with classification though. If any school has witnessed the impact of non-enrollment variables like a new coach, community support, and administrative support (especially Principal and AD are outstanding) it is GS. Those are big boosts to any program, regardless of enrollment. Not to mention a growing local economy is a big benefit was well. Which leads me to my point and the reason I quoted you. A point you made came up in a conversation I had with my son earlier this week. I mentioned a grade school classmate of his and he remarked, "He decided to go to Signature School, but his sister goes to Memorial." The student in question was a good student, but had minimal athletic ability. And that is the advantage of a non-district school vs. a district school. In a public school, there's a much greater chance that both siblings will be enrolled there, even if one really only desires to be in academics and not extra-curricular activities/athletics. There are athletes at Memorial/Mater Dei who have siblings attending public schools. It has been discussed on this board that a key starter for an Evansville P/P has a sibling who is a starter for a nearby DCS. With your 15-20% estimate, you have at least tried to reasonably capture this self-selection phenomenon. That sounds a touch low perhaps, but I could see the case for a 1.25 if it was backed with evidence and data. A simple multiplier like 1.85 or 2.0, take it or leave it, "just because" argument will be and should be met with resistance.

This is how you watch multiple games.

Looking more like a 6A. I swear to God they are!😂

I hope it works out this way. It will be grist for the GID mill for months to come.

Well-thanks for that.

You kick so the best they can do is tie with the 2-pointer. They'd have to score a TD, 2PC AND then score again in OT (and likely convert another 2PC) to beat you.

Eleventy-leven. State Law.

I think Danville will be a challenge for them also.

How many D1’s Westfield have?

Webo up 28-0 with 5 to go in half

Hmmmm.....I tried to stir the pot just a little and we end up doing transcendental meditation. .

The best 6% of football players from a BIG pool of players will be VASTLY superior to the best 6% of football players from a SMALL pool of players.

Interesting take. Not a knock or anything, but could this lead to "culling" for numbers/classification? In most schools, I think football is a "no-cut" sport, so you get lots of kids who play even if they don't play a bunch on Friday night. Would teams feel compelled or at least enticed to cut kids to slim down? For smaller schools, wouldn't it quickly increase their classification without necessarily a corresponding pound-for-pound equivalency? For example, Trader Point Christian has 128 kids in the school. Assume half are boys: 64. Their roster shows 24 on the team which gives you 37.5%. For a school like Carmel, which has 5,286 kids, half for boys would be 2,643. At 37.5%, that would be 991 kids that would be need to play to get to Trader's Point 37.5%. I think you'd need something other than a linear formula for this.

And we both know what the coach would say, had he been flagged: “We’ve been doing that for the last 12 weeks, and it’s never been called.” And he would probably be right. That’s an example of how a crew that’s not paying attention can make life miserable for the crew that comes after. The crew should have a signal, or some other form of communication, e.g., radios, so that the Umpire can notify the rest of the crew that the numbering exception for scrimmage kick formation is in effect. This is something of an obscure rule, and it does not surprise me that the coach is unaware that the rules are different on 3rd down than they are on 4th down. But the crew should know. Especially at the Regional level.

Perhaps you and “George Orwell” might best offer your skills to the IHSAA.

Although I have mentioned this before, Covenant Christian who participates in every sport except Football (along with Heritage Christian, btw), is part of the Circle City Conference in every sport excepting football. With that, Covenant Christian (1A), Chatard (3A) and Roncalli (4A) are all playing for state berths this weekend. Heritage Christian (2A) lost last week. For the record, the NIC actually had 3 teams at LOS in 2011. Penn (6A), South Bend Washington (4A) and South Bend St. Joe (3A) at LOS in 2011. None won...but it was still quite an accomplishment.

Just rediculous. You have been at this 20 years. GIVE. IT. UP. SF works. Roncalli has one State Championship in past 15 years. SF works. You might get 5% support in the IHSAA to support a 2 bump up in class. Want to know why? SF Works. It is enjoyable to come back on here every couple of years and see the calories you burn on this nonsense. Appreciate the entertainment. When my Grandsons who are two years old are playing for Roncalli and Guerin 12 years from now, I hope I can come back on here and get a couple of minutes more of enjoyment because I know you will still be at it!

No. They wont... All you will hear from several Southridge fans is how they should be 2A...Except they are 3A again for the next 2 years but whatever

Congrats to Mater Dei on a great season. Some talent over there and that may be the Largest 2A team I have seen. What was there 75 kids on that roster? congrats again on a great season

That was a statement tonight! Both teams heading into LOS with big wins. Don't know much about CC, but they beat touted Lutheran and seemed to be touted highly as well.

Nothing like going 3-6 in conference and winning semi state. Hats off to pioneer on a great season. Never take the foot off the gas against luers.

Might want to keep that thought on the down-low, the loonies over on Facebook already have the pitchforks and torches out and are marching in the streets about it.

I sure hope so! This team has fought so hard an overcome so much adversity. As a former Knight and State Champion, each week they have showed me the attributes of a championship team. I’m proud of the effort tonight, especially the halftime adjustments defensively. Now we’re back home to Indianapolis! This week they need to focus on the goal and prepare for a Webo team who runs a similar style offense as Pioneer and oh by the way, is the 2 time defending state champion. It’s all come down to this, gotta leave everything out there on the field. If they do that and play 48 minutes of Luers football, I think they can leave LOS as State Champions.

You'd have met the exact same fate in 2A.

Luers had several drops including a walk in TD early in the game and 2 lost fumbles that helped dig them a whole but man can that offense score in a hurry. I fully expect them to win another State Title next weekend.

Classic game. Marian is a helluva team. My wife literally couldn't watch the game. Kudos to Marian.

It was all Webo, I counted about 5 interceptions on the night

True, but WeBo's thrashing of MD tonight was a surprise too. Harrell's actually had both of them with thin odds of getting to LOS, much less winning.

I've been telling folks that since Week 2.

Thanks! WW is a great community. That final walk out to midfield for those seniors was amazing. It’s awesome to see that kind of support for the kids.

Unfortunately Royal Center will never forget this game.

Don't know if you've been watching much of this, but Webster for Westfield is a beast.

I thought Chatard/Marian was going to be the finish of the night. Luers 35, Pioneer 34 with 8:15 to go. Buckle up, it will be another good one.

Congratulations! Class of the field. Go win it all for the MIC.

42-7 Webo up with 4:20 left... Running clock. I stand corrected @Bobref

Oh well. You win some you lose some. Looks like <insert deity here> isn't on those p/p's side tonight. I just wish I was as smart and successful as you are, foxbat.

I think Luer’s coaches were reading this thread for defensive advice.

This is how you watch multiple games.

Well.....as WW is getting steam rolled currently i thought I'd take a min to say congrats to both teams on outstanding seasons. Sucks we went down this way. All I can do as a fan is hope the future remains bright and we continue to build on this and try again in the future. A hell of a senior class is leaving...best overall I personally ever seen. Between what happen last year and doing all this covid stuff the team and staff should be proud to get here. Congrats to @senatorcoach72 on a great season. Hopefully next coach is ready to continue to build up what we have. @Coach_Hogan_Brother congrats on the victory and best of luck at state.

Stop posting facts. STATE LAW!

Talented teams that run a 3-4 can give Pioneer fits in my opinion. LCC did for years.

I know that their fullback is out, and last week they used #15 at fullback.

Sorry to hear that.

The Whole Counter ISO.

That counter for a TD late in the half was a thing of beauty.

Hamilton Heights Lady Huskies 48, Lebanon Lady Tigers 43 final. Ooops, wrong website!!!

The Sagamores is sending 2 to Indy. I gotta go.

This game will 100% come down to the OL/DL (but what game doesn't, really?) 😉 Should be a fun, physical game!!

The OL/DL is where South Putnam was supposed to be superior to CC, but boy was I fooled. CC made them look terrible with greater speed and quickness. Those 6'5" 280# SP linemen were clearly overmatched by CC. If the WW line is like SP, it will be a long night for the Senators.

That's 2 years in a row that the SAC Champ/Co Champ hasn't looked good against middle to cellar dwellar HCC Teams and then throw in Westfield dismantled Homestead. The HCC is heads and shoulder above everyone not named the MIC. I'll give them them the benefit over my beloved Duneland in any matchup. I think Valpo is in serious trouble. They lacked a great passing game last year and the upgrate was supposed to be when Grimes transferred in from Lafayette Jeff. He ended up leaving the 1st half of the Penn game with an injury and hasn't been seen since. Valpo is a ground and pound team that will use the massive size/strength of their lines to run the ball down ZIonsville's throat and stop the ZIonsville offense. I can see this game turning into a 14-10 type of game that sees a lot of clock being burned up by running the ball. I'll give Zionsville the edge due to tougher schedule and Zionsville has a QB in Stone that capable of making big plays with is arm. I have a feeling Merrillville will keep it somewhat close and Westfield will end up winning by around 14. JoJo Johnson is not easy to contain. He and Marcus Hardy con generate some offense for the Pirates. Nothing against Marion, but I'll take the Bricks by 10+. I can't see them losing at home in a game that puts them back into a State Final Appearance for the first time since 1996. Especially since they were so close last year.