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after state title game in 2014, Coach took the time and wrote a hand written card and sent it up our way once again congratulating us on the game and victory and had other very nice things to say. He is Indiana High School Sports should be about.

I say leace it.

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Someone toad me Herbs, Brian Moore and Crabtrees went to the bridge festival together. They were peeing off the narrows bridge and Brian said it’s kinda windy. Herbs said the waters code and Crabtrees said it’s deep too. I swear to God. I gotta go

I saw that North Vermillion's endzone camera videographer is a woman. I believe that she is the first female endzone camera videographer in the history of the Wabash River Conference.

Correct. And there are players ready to step up… Even a kicker. LOL

Please explain. They look down on East and have mocked East for being in the "lowly" HHC.

You sure seem to hear a lot of bad rumors Dawgie. I don't know who your informant is, but you need to find a new one. The Dawgs don't need all that fancy schmancy crap. Those Rats won't be so proud when they gather for the 2029 reunion and find out they all have COPD!!! KFI's into is like putting $1000 wheels on a Prius. In the end, it's still just a Prius!

I believe that South Adams got bumped a few years ago after they won sectional and the next year a regional, but that may have been due to enrollment. South Adams did win a sectional after upsetting number 1 ranked Woodlan in 2A. But 2A and maybe 3A is South Adams' ceiling, and that's competing for sectionals, forget about going for state titles. Size of school is a huge factor, and the fact that you don't understand it shows that you don't know anything about small school football.

Congrats to Coach Goebel for being selected as the Colts "coach of the week" for Mater Dei's win over Central.

I turned 40 last Friday while in Kokomo oh that silly Foosball game got in the way

Exactly right. Add to it that Elmer was not the kind of guy that was going to say things people wanted to hear if he didn’t mean them. A Hall of Famer. Similar scenarios have been played out in several places, and it always mystifies me.

To be fair to Muda....he's been crowing about this awful format for years.

He was producing in Oakland. But the raiders drafted Renfrow and he has looked good. At some point Oakland had an injury to deal with. I think it was their LBs and they had to make room so they released him. I have Renfrow on a few of my fantasy teams so I followed the situation a bit. overall he is a decent WR. Mostly a slot guy. Nothing flashy or something to get pumped about....but for a depth guy who you can lean on for production, I like the move

I don’t know how many times I have to state the obvious but, folks, WE CAN’T EVEN AGREE TO SEED THE TOP 2 TEAMS IN SECTIONALS. Now we are actually having a conversation about enumerating every single team 1 through 320? And why exactly are we doing it? So we’ll get to see one of the worst 64 teams in the State trundle off with a State ring? There is nothing about the proposed system that promotes excellence.

LOL. if you meet him before the game, don't expect a lot of jovial banter. Mike gets pretty intense, to say the least. I remember a few years back I said "good luck Mike" as they were getting off the bus at Enlow and he said "You don't mean that" and kept walking. It was pretty funny.

Thank goodness! 😄

Let's be nice to our 0fers--they need love, too!!!

Yeaaaaah, they can, but transfers=$. When this law was passed by the legislature, several schools publicly announced they would not accept transfers, Carmel was one of those schools. Schools like Carmel could probably afford that. I mean seriously if 10 kids transfer in, what's another 60K really going to matter to their coffers. Seymour also opted for the same policy, which wasn't the smartest thing they've ever done. At the time, Seymour was loosing athletes to Brownstown and Trinity Lutheran. Kids were leaving and paying tuition to go to school elsewhere. As vouchers came along a some of P/P schools opted not to accept vouchers, they feared it would leave them forced with abiding by the same rules publics had to abide by. All of that has since changed, school systems are after every nickel they can get. Several years back Brownstown put a billboard right in front of Seymour High School advertising "Free Tuition". It has become a numbers game, and schools want every kid they can get because it means more money. So honestly I get a chuckle every time I hear "well they can recruit", EVERY school in the state recruits.

Yet only 1 state is listed as using a 1.65 multiplier

IMO, Frankfort is ahead of C-ville in the rebuilding process. Frankfort had numbers and were quite a bit more competitive at the jr.high level. Both are very tough situations. Frankfort Jr. High coaches were coaching their buts off (even when down 30+ points) when they played us. Hopefully, both can get back to being more competitive.

King is just always battling soft tissue injuries. Groin issues especially...I haven’t seen anything about him being finished but coming into the year I already gave up on him. Should have drafted watt lol. I think without king the packers are fine. But they have to continue to wreck OL with the pass rush. Force throws...limit time at all costs. (I say all this knowing damn well the packers could put another “Gunter” 1v1 on a julio Jones level player and just get burned all game....RIP 2015 Super Bowl chances)

Just glad them and Charlestown are getting turf.

Not to be a jerk but I'm not sure this is the place for this post. A topic worth discussing for sure, but its bound to get political and become a discussion that isn't about sports.

As someone from a few miles up the road from Jeff.....no, don't think there will be any drama to this, His $$ spends like anyone else's School board already took it, the school is already spending it. Just an alumnus taking care of his school and the team he played for. He just gave a couple of million to a HBCU in Louisville a couple of months ago, who gratefully said "thanks".

Speaking of them. I said it last week and it should be said again. They should be ranked higher. At least this week they are 10. only loss was to Heritage Hills and they had the game 7-7 at the half. Then heritage hills scored 5 times in 15 plays. 7-1 only losing to a super talented senior led #3 HH squad. they face #5 GIbson Southern this week

If I lived in Kokomo within stumbling distance of the Hugger I probably wouldn’t ever leave town.

Typical. A tread on IU football and all of a sudden, Notre Dame is the topic. Getting back to the Hoosiers, Saturday will tell a lot about this team. Going into a hostile environment and needing a win to keep the bowl game alive. This years team is improving and Maryland is up and down this year but are at home. The Hoosiers are going to need a great game out of Penix and the defense needs to hold Maryland under 20 points. This happen and the Hoosiers head home at 5-2.

Mike Goebel is the epitome of class in Indiana HS sports... Football and wrestling. Bravo. Can't wait until you and your team team return to The Jungle with the (not your) cadre of lunatics. Nothing but respect from Heritage Hills, football and wrestling, to Mater Dei and Coach Goebel.

The concept of the Cluster system was, and remains, valid. The implementation was fatally flawed because the rules did not allow enough teams to qualify, leading to inequitable results. Expand the number of teams getting in, and problem solved.

6A- Merrilville vs Homestead 5A- Valpo vs Dwenger 4A- New Prairie vs Delta 3A- Chatard vs Mishawaka Marian 2A- Lewis Cass vs Eastbrook 1A- Lafayette Central Catholic vs South Adams

Ok then I’m not buying in, without the the Most successful program in recent history, in south central Indiana.

Are we convinced the number of D1 players produced is really the proper measure? GS, Southridge, Central and Memorial have all had a lot of very good teams recently, but I don't recall more than a few D1 players. Those schools have all had a good number of kids play D2, D3, NAIA, not to mention other rare and worthwhile pursuits (studying for seminary, attending service academies, etc.). You sure seem to have an odd fixation, which is surprising considering Lindauer was a great 3 sport player and even better kid. Plus, he was a big part of a lot of kids getting state championship rings and having memories that will last a long time. And by the way, we still have a pretty good QB.... No disagreement with that statement. That is the beauty of HS football.

Aside from the various impracticalities you have pointed out, I have always maintained it is impossible due to the “seeding” element required. We have dinosaurs here that won’t even agree that seeding the Top 2 teams in a Sectional is a good or possible idea.........or even a fair idea. Just how does anyone think they are going to get those troglodytes to sign on to seeding teams numbered 1-320. I will sooner be able to flap my arms and fly before people agree to seed every single team in order.

Well...I guess we now know why Lburg wanted to wear their white uniforms Friday night at home and why they changed to have a white-out...Coach K is wanting to sport his new gear he just got...Man you looking good Coach K, here he is spotted sporting his new gear last week...haha

psaboy.......................Snider will not be at regional. OK, they have a slim chance, but doubt they get by Sparty. Snider has the athletes to beat Sparty. They just have to make adjustments and figure it out. The big question for Snider is whether or not they get by Carroll. If they are not 100% focused on the Chargers, they will lose the game. I consider Carroll a trap game for Snider with Homestead losing. I'm 50/50 on whether or not Snider will get by the first round. Carroll is a very good football team, let's not forget that. They lost to Snider and Dwenger by a total margin of 8 points. They were in the game against Homestead until late third quarter. They also took care of Concordia last week 16-0 with several starters nursing injuries.

If you believe this thread was made to openly mock high school football program then you are sorely mistaken. Which of these games/teams are you personally going to support this Friday?

Possible that he is not on this continent?? I knew they battled this in previous years around this time...

Exchanging a Friday night home gate for paying rent on a neutral facility so your handful of parents can travel 200 miles roundtrip to watch a game dwarfed by College Football Saturday. Columbus East says thanks for the snub.

Conflict is constant... Impeach!!!

Yeah...now that's funny!! I'll bite. Reitz fans have had the privilege of watching opposing teams carry real footballs into the end zone all year!!! Beat Harrison and Bosse. Please. SIAC should be changed to the BIG 3.

Sit back, as this is going to take a while. But if you are really interested in this issue, I think it’s worth it. I think DT is one of the more progressive, out-of-the-box thinkers on this site. But DT and I are going to have to part company on this one. If you are going to address competitive issues by adding criteria other than raw size to a classification system, a Success Factor (SF) is a much better way to do it than a Multiplier (M). The M is a broadsword when what we are really looking for is a scalpel. Here’s why. In order to determine the best solution, you must first identify the issue and then decide on the goal you want to achieve. The issue the classification system attempts to address is simply that schools that are larger have advantages over schools that are smaller. Nowhere is this more evident than in football, which is in some respects, a numbers game. The goal of a classification system is to, within practical limits, have like schools playing like schools. The call for a classification system that takes into account more than just sheer school size came about not because P/Ps have some distinct advantages (although they do), but because they were having success disproportionate to their numbers. Is it really an advantage if it is not translated into success? Of course not. It was not uncommon to go to Thanksgiving weekend in Indy and see 60% P/Ps in the finals, when they comprise only 10% (or less) of the football-playing schools. This disparity was reflected in all levels of the tournament, i.e., sectional, regional and semistate championships. It has been well-documented on here that P/Ps have certain advantages: Absence of geographic boundaries, giving them access to a theoretically greater pool of potential players. A demographic makeup that results in their students being more willing/able to participate in extracurricular activities. A selective admissions process that, again theoretically, allows them to “recruit” athletes. Of course, there are P/P supporters who will fight you to the death as to whether these advantages actually exist, whether they are offset by advantages that public schools have, or whether these advantages translate to athletic success. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that these advantages do exist, and that they can result in greater athletic success. The problem with a M is that it treats all P/Ps exactly the same when it is inarguably clear that they are not. Some P/Ps capitalize on their inherent advantages, and some do not. No one in his right mind would argue that Cathedral and Bishop Noll should be treated the same. Yet, that is what a M system does. Chatard is a perennial contender for a state championship. Park Tudor has won just 15 of the 70 games they’ve played going back to the 2013 season. Yet, a M treats them as if they were the same. A classification system that seeks to promote fairness should address the real issue: disproportionate success resulting from a willingness to take advantage of the factors that contribute to success. Some P/Ps do, and some don’t. A M paints with too broad a brush. Since the issue is disproportionate success, a classification system based on success is the best way to address the issue. Now, you can certainly quibble over whether the current SF system is the best way to go about it. Is the cycle too short? Does it award the right number of “points” to certain achievements? Does it measure disproportionate success accurately? But what you can’t argue is that a success based system is the only fair way to address the problem of inherent advantages resulting in disproportionate success. Because it’s only when a school uses those advantages to be disproportionately successful that a perceived problem arises. If all the P/Ps had a level of success like Bishop Noll and Park Tudor, would anyone be clamoring for a M or SF? Of course not. The other positive attribute of a SF system is that is applies across the board to all schools, not just P/Ps. Because, you see, there are public schools that have advantages, too. They have greater access to financial resources than P/Ps. They pay their coaches better. They generally have better facilities. When was the last time you saw a P/P float a bond issue? New Palestine is a great example. During the same period that Park Tudor was 15-55, New Pal went 82-4, with 4 sectional titles, 4 regionals, 3 semistates, and 2 state championships. They have certain advantages in terms of their demographics, facilities, and, most importantly a supportive administration and community. They’ve leveraged those advantages into great success. In other words, they’ve proved they can punch above their weight class. A M system, however, would not address their disproportionate success. But under the SF, they are 5A, rather than the 4A they would be simply by enrollment. And they’re doing quite nicely in 5A. So there is no unfairness there. The bottom line is that if the objective of a classification system is to have like schools playing like, so that the playing field is “level,” a M is too blunt an instrument. Its basic assumption – that all P/Ps are alike – is demonstrably wrong. If you’re going to address a disproportionate level of success for certain schools, then the best way to do it is to affect the schools that use their inherent advantages – whatever they may be – to achieve that disproportionate level of success, and not make things even harder for those schools who, for whatever reason, have not been able to translate whatever perceived advantages they have into that type of success. My two cents.

I have another suggestion: DON'T READ THE THREAD. This is the second time today you've voluntarily read and even chose to reply in a thread you've voiced your disdain for.

Having taken in a few hundred AAU hoops games over the last decade, my uneducated eyes tell me that Brown is more than capable of being a D1 contributor. His grandpa/coach was one of our counselors at Rick Mount Shooting Camp one year and I swear every single guy in our bunk was terrified of him. I can't imagine spending 17 years with that man in your ear. Reminded me a lot of Bobby Knight in that you never ever want to disappoint him. College hoops rosters are filled with weak-willed lanky dudes who simply look good in layup lines. Luke's IQ and pedigree will have him well-suited to float right to the top of a depth chart someplace. Also, it really is a shame that the chatter has been so inconsistent this season but the conference is just in a weird place right now. Two really good teams, two teams who could maaaybe get frisky in the playoffs, 3 teams who are booty, and then...Elwood. When I was a kid I used to hesitate to tell folks where I'm from because of the stigma left by the klan. If they don't beat MG tonight I might burn my old letterman's jacket so my daughter doesn't find it one day and realize her dad is a bum.

Southridge is 23% hispanic according to the DOE website. They have been to Semistate last year and won state the year before in football in 2A. Won a boys basketball sectional two years ago in 3A. Won a wrestling sectional last year. Went to state in baseball last year in 2A. Girls won a sectional in 2A softball last year. Not sure that having a hispanic student body makes any difference.

I still don't believe we allow someone to use this forum as a tool to state that reducing opportunities for student-athletes is somehow going to make football better. This isn't the NFL. Reducing from 32 to 28 teams isn't going to cull out the worst 200 players. This isn't college - players aren't just going to transfer if their school's program disbands. Some will, but many won't. DT has this delusional view that HSFB is like college, and that people choose their schools and will flock to programs. Instead, the number of programs we want to target in INHSFB should be 400+ - the number of IHSAA schools - not some arbitrary number that one message board poster has decided is "good." Contraction won't help many, but it will hurt the vulnerable kids in rural schools for whom football is an outlet and for many, a lifeline. This is education-based athletics, not big-time college sports. Opportunity is what matters. What happens from 3-5 p.m. every day on the 100-yard classroom matters. You can learn a lot of life lessons as a JV player on an 0-10 team that you'll NEVER learn by going home and playing video games all day because football was taken away. Not every program is going to be Center Grove. You're going to have a few who struggle, and that's OK. In the case of Shelbyville ... they have great alumni support, good admin/community support, have never canceled a game, and they've been largely competitive for the last 20 years and are going through a down cycle. Some of that might be due to demographic changes, younger players choosing other sports, et al, but that's a good, traditional community that loves its sports. Football will *always* be a part of their athletic menu.

From going to college in Terre Haute I know one of the issues is the smell. What is the other one?